Editor’s note: Since 2000, China’s economy has developed by leaps and bounds, and people’s quality of life has improved significantly. It is said that in the 40 years of reform and opening up, the social economy has developed too fast, but the souls of most people have been left far behind. People who were born between the 1970s and 2000s have enjoyed the dividends and convenience of the development. However, it seems that their inner demands and struggles with diseases rarely receive attention.
Recently, the suicide incident in the Tianmen Mountain Scenic Area has aroused the concern of the whole society about depression and suicidal groups. Chen Boyu (pseudonym), a senior psychotherapist from Southwest China, gave a seminar on “How to Treat Mental Depression.” Chen is a graduate of a medical university in clinical medicine, a national second-tier psychological counselor, a marriage and family psychological counselor, a guidance director, the founder of perspective conversion therapy, and a clinical psychological counseling project manager. He started psychological counseling and training in 2003.
In the conversation, he shared his experience of receiving salvation through grace and how he overcame severe depression in seven different ways, as well as some professional and unusual experiences and insights on depressed people.
Christian Times: Mr. Chen, how did you believe in the Lord?
Chen Boyu: When I was in junior high school, my stepfather’s family was Christian, and he preached the gospel to me. Later, I went to a medical university in 1999, when I met a Christian classmate who took me to the Christmas carol services. After I graduated, I didn’t continue to work in the hospital as I was burdened with counseling. The role of Barnabas in the Bible touched me because my own family of origin was very broken, so I began to work in psychological counseling. When I was in high school, I had severe depression, and my mother was also diagnosed with incipient depressive neurosis. In fact, the pain of the mind was often more painful than the pain of the body. When I was 18 years old, I looked older than a 40-year-old man in my graduation photo. After graduation, I just stayed in the hospital for one year and then left to do psychological counseling. I have been doing counseling for just 20 years, from 2003 until now.
Christian Times: How was your depression treated?
Chen Boyu: I think I can be healed and changed in seven aspects. The first aspect is that the Word of God itself illuminates my heart. At that time, there was a scripture: “Don’t be afraid; just believe” (Mark 5:36). In actuality, most people who are depressed have a variety of fears in their hearts, including fears of rejection, losing, others not understanding, not getting all of their wants, and so forth. The fear is not conceptualized in the hearts of people with depression, but it is actually an obvious cage force that makes people shrink back. This is what the Bible says: “There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment” (1 John 4:18). This verse illuminates many fears in my heart. At that time, it seemed that I suddenly had the experience of finding light in the dark, finding a door in a dilemma, or using a stone knife to chisel my hardened heart.
The second aspect is that there is a book called The Hour That Changes the World, which says that it takes one hour every day to read the Bible, pray, and meditate on God’s Word to change yourself. Then, I am willing to spend an hour giving my heart constraint and strength.
The third aspect is that the secret to keeping grace is to give it away with love. However, people with depression will still have a problem; that is, they are very self-conscious and feel sorry for themselves, just like the paralytic in the New Testament, who had been paralyzed for 38 years and felt great self-pity and excessive bitterness. After being treated, people with depression need to live a life of sharing grace and blessings and caring for and helping the needs of other broken families. Then grace and positive energy will stay with the person.
The fourth aspect is that we need to constantly look at ourselves from a new perspective. For example, when I grew up for a period of time, I could sometimes go back to my family of origin or my hometown and take a new look, just as I would take a butterfly’s view to see myself in the nest I made during the caterpillar period. You will find that many of your ideas are subjective, and in yourself, there are many narrow and foolish ideas. This process of looking back can help your heart reflect well.
The fifth aspect is that we need to have our own Barnabas. Life is not about penance alone but about being supported in a loving relationship. This part also needs people to have a kind of search, seek to knock on the door actively, and even take the initiative to ask for help. Just as the woman said, “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table” (Matthew 15:27), which means to have such a gentle and formable mind.
Sixth, we need to learn to apologize to the people we have hurt. It is easy to ignore this piece, but in fact, repentance is necessary, like for Zacchaeus in the Bible. When we are immersed in our own world of righteousness, we will often hurt others. We need to take the initiative to go to some people we have hurt and then communicate with them. At this time, it is a good opportunity to witness their faith and preach the gospel to them, which is a more real opportunity to open your heart and establish relationships.
The seventh aspect is to distinguish two types of reflection: one is Judaism's reflection and the other is Peter’s reflection. Depression easily enters Judaic reflection. People need to let go of their own convictions and trial power. People with depression need to open the world of repentance experienced by the younger son in the prodigal son metaphor: I don’t deserve my father’s love, but my old father still forgives and accepts us, so my life is full of light and gratitude. Depression can’t just rely on medicine; even more psychological counseling is not enough because people are meant to be alive when they have a correct understanding of human spirituality.
Christian Times: What principles and methods will you follow in your specific process of consulting and helping patients?
Chen Boyu: Personally, I care about holistic therapy and perspective conversion therapy. There will be many changes in perspective in a person’s life, just as a caterpillar used to see the world from this place on the ground, but when it becomes a butterfly, the perspective will change, and then the mood will change. Consequently, the views on money, marriage, parenthood, and so on will change.
So in fact, the Bible helps us to have a new perspective and look at our lives and experiences from the perspective of God and truth. Sometimes it is a variety of counseling tools, just like a car, where the most important thing is who will drive it. Therefore, psychotherapy itself is an art, but in the hands of God, there must be a combination of the Word and technique, and these techniques should be used on the basis of the Word.
Christian Times: What do you think of the orientation and relationship between biblical psychotherapy and psychological counseling?
Chen Boyu: Sometimes, I seem to feel desperate and even have a victim mentality, but then I feel innocent. There will also be an unhealthy silence in Psalms, but in fact, there are various emotions in Psalms: anger, sadness, excitement, self-blame, complaint, repentance, and so on. Barnabas' team is needed in society and the church, which is an organ for detoxification. Serving according to the truth and with love can solve the poison in people’s hearts. If the church doesn’t do it, the social counselors will, but it is more like a hemodialysis organ. The “kidney organ” of the church can’t rot. If the church can’t use the “kidney” to detoxify, it will be thrown away, and the detoxification will have to depend on the “peripherals”.
In fact, psychological counseling itself originated from the function of the church, but this only means that this function has not been well built and passed down. When we want to help people with depression, we should have this concept called a multi-pronged approach. The first is to have a support system to promote the establishment of the church; the other is to have a kind of self-knowledge, and the pastor should provide the resources of Barnabas' team. From a social point of view, sometimes it also includes saying that we just need a pair of listening hearts, and sometimes we should not give advice to people with depression.
There is a short story about a man who wanted to commit suicide, but he said to God in his heart, “As long as I walk from here to the place where I am going to commit suicide and someone smiles at me, I will cancel this suicide plan.” If there is more goodness between people in life, sometimes it is worth a thousand words. People are meant to love and be loved, whereas money is meant to be used. The dislocation of the relationship between matter and people is a sin in the Bible, so the standards of social values sometimes need to be considered.
Professionals formed a service known as Stephen's Fellowship. They are professionally trained, but unlike consultants, they can meet the patients in the coffee shop, walk with them, or even exercise with them. Even if someone has a relative who has passed away, they can visit him regularly, but the consultant can’t do so. Being a helper also requires 70 hours of professional helper training, and a psychological counselor may need 600 hours of primary counselor training, with different degrees and settings.
Christian Times: Looking at the four people who jumped off the cliff on Tianmen Mountain, almost all of them had one feature, that is, “sunshine” depression. They are usually outgoing and seem to have no problems. They look normal on the outside, but there are hidden dark forces that lead them to commit suicide. How can we identify and rescue them in ordinary times?
Chen Boyu: The parable of the good Samaritan gives us the following enlightenment: firstly, there needs to be people who are willing to walk in the church; secondly, there needs to be the ability to walk in with love; thirdly, we will walk in, for example, in the past, we would see if the man’s cervical vertebra was injured; if his cervical vertebra was injured, we would go to see the person who was beaten; then we would pull him onto the donkey, and his cervical vertebra would be broken, so this is called walking in. That means that we need to have the knowledge to help others. The fourth is to dare to walk into the valley of the shadow of death for others. The so-called happy depression is actually when the person has many spiritual walls in his heart. Then in the physical aspect, for example, he suffers from insomnia for a long time, and then he has this kind of headache and palpitation, which can be distinguished from this psychological part, as well as inattention, decreased attention, and memory loss.
From an emotional point of view, for example, do you often want to cry? Maybe you will want to cry when you smile, and so on, like Mr. Beans, who also has severe depression. Some comedians can be "sunny", but there is actually depression behind them. There is such a sense of hopelessness in the control area; then there is a sense of uselessness in the truth area; then there is a sense of helplessness in the love area; and then there is that person in the central area who thinks he is nothing and will blame himself. They will feel that there are many wounds in their hearts that have not been healed. However, judging from the people around him, if he talks about suicidal thoughts, he needs to consult relevant people, and then sometimes he can make some referrals and do some crisis intervention and crisis assessment.
Suicide is also divided into several different stages:
The first stage is called standing on the river bank. At that time, the person wants to drift—that is to say, the suicide preparation stage.
The second stage is called the launching stage, meaning the person has already started to implement it, such as buying poison, finding a place, jumping, group chatting, and so on. This is like saying that he has put the paddle and boat into the water by drifting.
The third stage is to fall off the cliff. This is the implementation stage. Implementation does not mean that he will succeed. It's possible that he will hang on to a tree on the cliff or receive assistance from others. This is called suicide which has no success.
The fourth stage is that he has completely fallen.
This requires an event like Tianmen Mountain. Before it, there was actually a stage of standing on the shore, and then there was a stage of launching. Finally, they also had a stage of falling down. Then, in the fourth stage, they were completely unable to help themselves. More people need to have the knowledge and equipment to evaluate suicidal tendencies or popularize them in churches and public places like subway stations, just like if a person has heart problems, everyone will know how to use those golden minutes and how to use a defibrillator.
In fact, this kind of self-examination and evaluation of mental health also needs to be popularized. Then everyone should at least know that brothers and sisters in the church should have some knowledge and take precautions in advance. Of course, this is already firefighting, but it is better to learn to prevent a fire than to fight it. Once, Mother Teresa was asked how one could contribute to world peace. Mother Teresa said that you should go back and love your family. Then we need to reflect, believing that people are not meant to be manipulated and money is not meant to be loved, but not the other way around. People’s minds will naturally become healthy and powerful.
- Translated by Charlie Li
编者按：千禧年后，中国的经济来到了突飞猛进的发展，人们的物质生活质量有了显著的提高。也有的人说，改革开放的40年里，社会经济发展的太快，但大多数人的灵魂却被远远的落在了后面。从70后到今天的00后，大部分的人都享受到了时代发展的红利与便利。但是对于人们的内心世界的诉求、疾病和挣扎等境况来说，似乎却又很少被关注和提及。
近期，发生在天门山景区的自杀事件，引发了全社会对抑郁症和自杀倾向群体的关注。近日，一位来自西南的资深心理治疗师陈伯瑜（化名）进行了一次关于“心灵抑郁该如何得到救治？”的话题分享。陈伯瑜老师是医科大学临床医学毕业、国家二级心理咨询师，婚姻家庭心理咨询师、辅导总监、视角转化疗法创始人、临床心理辅导项目经理。他从2003年开始心理辅导和培训工作至今。
在这次交流中，他分享了自己蒙恩得救的经历，以及他是如何从深度抑郁症中走出来的七个方面；同时他也有对抑郁症群体的一些专业独到的心得与看见。
问：陈老师，您是如何信主的？
答：我在上初中的时候，我继父的亲家是基督徒，他传了福音给我。后面到了1999年上医科大学，当时我们班有一个同学是基督徒，他带我去参加圣诞节的晚会。我在大学毕业后，没有继续在医院里面工作，我就对辅导有负担，因为我自己的原生家庭很破碎，所以我对圣经中巴拿巴的这个角色是比较有触动的，因此，我就开始做这个心理辅导的工作。我自己是在上高中的时候，有严重的抑郁症，我妈妈也曾被诊断初抑郁型神经症。其实心灵的痛苦有很多时候比身体的痛苦更痛苦。那后来我在18岁的时候，从毕业照上看我的话，外表看上去好像是比一个 40 岁的人还要苍老，毕业以后，我就只是在医院待了一年的时间就出来做这个心理辅导，我从03年到现在刚好20年的时间在做辅导工作。
问：那您的抑郁症是如何得到医治呢？
答：我想我个人得到医治和改变，要从七个方面来看：第一方面是，上帝的话语本身照亮我的心房，当时就是有一节经文：“不要怕，只要信。”其实很多抑郁症的人内心是有很多种怕的情绪在里面：怕失去，怕别人不理解，怕得不到各种想要的，怕被别人误会，怕被别人拒绝等等。这种惧怕在抑郁症的人的心里面是没有概念化，但是实际是很明显的一个牢笼的力量，让人会退缩。这就是圣经中说的惧怕里含着刑罚，惧怕人在爱中未得完全。这一节经文，照亮我心中的很多的怕。那一次好像让我突然之间有经历了在黑暗中找到光，或者是在这种困境中找到一扇门，或者拿到一把石刀开始破冰松动自己的心。
第二个方面就是，有一本书叫《一小时改变世界》，那本书在说，每天花一个小时的时间来读经祷告默想上帝的话语来改变自己。然后，我愿意花 1个小时来让我的心得到一种约束和力量。
第三个方面就是，一个人要留住恩典的秘诀是把得到的恩典带着爱给出去。但抑郁症的人还会有个问题，就是很自我，自己可怜自己，就好像新约中瘫痪了38年的瘫子一样，会有对自己的自怜和过分苦情的情绪。抑郁症人得到医治之后，需要过一个分享恩典和祝福的生活，要关心和帮助其它破碎家庭的需要，这时反而恩典和正能量会留在里面。
第四个方面是，我们需要不断地带着新的视角去看过去的自己。比如说，自己成长一段时间，有时候也可以回到原生家庭，回到老家，带着新的眼光，就像带着蝴蝶的眼光才会去看毛毛虫时期做的那个窝里的自己。你就会发现，自己曾经很多的想法是很主观的，很多狭隘和愚昧的想法在自己里面。这个回望的过程可以让自己的心很好的反思。
第五个方面是，我们需要有自己的巴拿巴，人生不是一个人苦修，而是需要让自己在爱的关系中得到扶持。这个部分也需要人有一种寻找，寻求主动地去叩门，甚至主动地去求助，就像那个妇人说， 狗也吃主人桌子上掉下来的碎渣，就是要有这种谦卑受教的那种温柔，可塑性的心智。
第六个方面，我们需要学会去为自己伤害过的人去道歉。这块很容易被忽略掉，但是实际上就像圣经中的撒该一样的悔改是必要的。当我们沉浸在自己的这种义的世界当中的时候，有很多时候也会伤害到别人。我们是需要主动地走到自己伤害过的一些人，然后去跟他们沟通好。这时很好见证信仰，跟他们传福音，是比较真实地打开心建立关系的机会。
第七个方面，就是分辨两种类型的反思：一种是犹大式的反思，一种叫彼得式的反思。抑郁症很容易进入到犹大式的反思。人需要放下自己的那种对自己的定罪权与审判权，抑郁症的人需要打开浪子比喻中那个小儿子经历的悔改的世界，是我不配得到父亲的爱了，但是老父亲依旧给我们饶恕和接纳，因而我的生命中充满阳光和感谢。抑郁症不能只是单单服药，即便是再多的心理咨询也是不够，因为人是被造为有灵的活人，当人对人的灵性的有正确的认识。
问：在您具体的咨询和帮助病患的过程中，您会按照怎样的原则和方法来操作呢？
答：我个人比较在意的是全人医治和视角转换疗法。人一生当中会有很多次视角的转化，就像毛毛虫从前看世界是从这个在地上看世界，但是到它变成这个蝴蝶的时候，视角就变了，那然后他的情绪也会变，然后他的金钱观，婚姻观、亲子观等等都会变。
所以其实圣经帮助我们拥有一个新的视角，从上帝和真理的视角来看我们的人生和遭遇。有的时候是各种辅导的工具，就像一辆车一样，最关键是被谁来开。所以心理治疗它本身是一种艺术，但是在上帝的手中，这个当中一定要有这种道与术的结合，要在道的基础上使用这些技术。
问：您怎么看圣经化的心灵医治与心理学咨询的定位和关系呢？
答：有的时候，我好像觉得很绝望，甚至会觉得有一种受害者心态，然后我会觉得自己很无辜。诗篇里面也会出现一种叫做不健康的安静，但其实诗篇里面有各种情绪：愤怒、哀伤、激动、自责、抱怨、悔改等各种情绪。社会和教会里都需要有巴拿巴团队，这是一个解毒的器官，按照真道和爱的事奉可以解人心灵之毒。如果教会不去做，那就跑到社会的咨询师那里，但这更像是一个血液透析的器官，教会的“肾脏器官”不能朽坏掉，那教会如果没有办法用“肾脏”来解毒，最后只能它就会被抛到外围的设备上去解毒了。
其实，心理辅导，这本身就是起源于教会的功能，但是只是说现在这个功能并没被很好的建造和传承下来。当我们要帮助抑郁症人时，要有这种叫做多管齐下的观念。第一个就是有个推动教会建立支持系统；另外一个是要有一种自知之明，牧者应该要提供巴拿巴小组的资源进行对接。从社会的角度来看，有的时候也包括说我们只需要有一双聆听的心，有的时候不要给抑郁症的人支招。
有一个小故事，就是有一个人他想去自杀，但是他在内心中跟上帝说：“只要我从这里走到去自杀的那个地方，有个人对我笑一下，我就取消这个自杀计划。”如果生活中，人与人之间能够有多一些良善，有时候是胜过千言万语。人是拿来爱的，钱是拿来用才是正确的。物质和人的关系的错位在圣经中就是罪，所以社会价值观上的看待标准有时候需要思考一下。
有的地方叫司提反团契，是专业的助人者。助人者受过专业训练，但是他不像咨询师，助人者可以在咖啡厅跟他见面，也可以在陪他散步，甚至陪他健身。甚至有人有亲人过世了，他可以定期去探访他，但咨询师就不能够这样做。成为助人者也是要接受70来个小时的专业助人者训练，心理咨询师可能他要接受600 个小时的初级的咨询师的训练，其程度和设置也是不一样的。
问：您看这次天门山跳崖的 4 个人，他们几乎都有一个特点，就是阳光型抑郁症，就平时都很阳光，看不出有什么问题。在外表看起来蛮正常的，但是隐藏在心里的那种引导他们自杀的黑暗势力，那我们平时该如何去辨别和救助？
答：好撒马利亚人的比喻中给我们的启示第一个是，教会中需要有愿意走入的人，第二个就是要有爱的能力去走入，第三是我们会走入，比如说是过去的时候，要看一看他的颈椎有没有受伤，如果他颈椎受伤了，去看这个被打的人，我们再把他拉到驴上面，会把他的颈椎拉断，那这个叫会走入。就是要有助人的知识。第四个叫做敢于去走入到别人的这种死荫幽谷当中。所谓的快乐抑郁症，其实是他有很多个心灵的墙在心里。然后在身体的方面，比如说他长期的失眠，然后或者是说出现这种头疼、心慌，那能够从这种心理的部分，还有注意力不集中，注意力下降，记忆力减退来辨别。
从情绪的角度来讲，有的时候比如说会不会有经常会想哭，可能笑着会想哭等等，就像憨豆，他也是有严重的抑郁症。有些喜剧演员可以很阳光，但是实际上背后其实有很多抑郁。有这种有控制区的无望感，然后有真理区域的无用感，然后在爱区的无助感，然后就是在中心区的那个叫做自以为自己什么都不是，会有自责。他们就会觉得自己内心当中都有好像很多伤口没有得到医治。但从周围的人来看，如果是他讲到说自己要有自杀的想法，那就需要请教一下相关人士，然后有的时候可以做一些转介，做一些危机干预和危机评估。
自杀也是分几个不同的阶段：
第一个阶段叫做站在河岸上的阶段，那个时候他想要漂流，那就是说自杀准备阶段。
第二个阶段叫下水阶段，就是他已经开始有实施了，比如说买药、找地方、跳下去、群聊等等。这个就好像说他漂流已经把那个桨和船放到水里面。
第三个阶段就是从那个悬崖上掉下去，这是实施阶段，实施不代表他就会成功，有可能他会挂在悬崖的一棵树上，或者是说被别人救掉等等，这个叫自杀，没有成功。
第四个阶段是他已经完全掉下去了。
这一点是需要有像天门山的事件，它之前其实有站在岸上的阶段，然后也有下水的阶段，最后他也有往下面掉的那个阶段，然后最后他第四个阶段，他完全已经没办法再去帮助他。更多的是需要有对自杀倾向的评估的知识装备，或者普及在教会，在地铁站中公共场所里，就像如果一个人有心脏的问题，大家会普及说那黄金的几分钟怎么操作，如何用除颤仪等。
其实心神的健康的这种自查评估也是需要有普及的，那大家至少知道教会里面弟兄姐妹应该有一些装备，并且提前的来预防。当然这个已经是救火了，但是比起救火，更好的是学会防火。有人问德蕾莎修女，我应该怎么样为世界和平做贡献？德蕾莎修女说你好好回去爱你的家人，那我们其实也需要有一些重新思考，说人不是拿来用的，钱也不是拿来爱的，而是要反过来，要从错位到归位。人的心灵自然会变得健康有力量。
对话｜一西南资深心理治疗师谈：我如何走出抑郁症？如何看待抑郁症群体的医治理念?
Editor’s note: Since 2000, China’s economy has developed by leaps and bounds, and people’s quality of life has improved significantly. It is said that in the 40 years of reform and opening up, the social economy has developed too fast, but the souls of most people have been left far behind. People who were born between the 1970s and 2000s have enjoyed the dividends and convenience of the development. However, it seems that their inner demands and struggles with diseases rarely receive attention.
Recently, the suicide incident in the Tianmen Mountain Scenic Area has aroused the concern of the whole society about depression and suicidal groups. Chen Boyu (pseudonym), a senior psychotherapist from Southwest China, gave a seminar on “How to Treat Mental Depression.” Chen is a graduate of a medical university in clinical medicine, a national second-tier psychological counselor, a marriage and family psychological counselor, a guidance director, the founder of perspective conversion therapy, and a clinical psychological counseling project manager. He started psychological counseling and training in 2003.
In the conversation, he shared his experience of receiving salvation through grace and how he overcame severe depression in seven different ways, as well as some professional and unusual experiences and insights on depressed people.
Christian Times: Mr. Chen, how did you believe in the Lord?
Chen Boyu: When I was in junior high school, my stepfather’s family was Christian, and he preached the gospel to me. Later, I went to a medical university in 1999, when I met a Christian classmate who took me to the Christmas carol services. After I graduated, I didn’t continue to work in the hospital as I was burdened with counseling. The role of Barnabas in the Bible touched me because my own family of origin was very broken, so I began to work in psychological counseling. When I was in high school, I had severe depression, and my mother was also diagnosed with incipient depressive neurosis. In fact, the pain of the mind was often more painful than the pain of the body. When I was 18 years old, I looked older than a 40-year-old man in my graduation photo. After graduation, I just stayed in the hospital for one year and then left to do psychological counseling. I have been doing counseling for just 20 years, from 2003 until now.
Christian Times: How was your depression treated?
Chen Boyu: I think I can be healed and changed in seven aspects. The first aspect is that the Word of God itself illuminates my heart. At that time, there was a scripture: “Don’t be afraid; just believe” (Mark 5:36). In actuality, most people who are depressed have a variety of fears in their hearts, including fears of rejection, losing, others not understanding, not getting all of their wants, and so forth. The fear is not conceptualized in the hearts of people with depression, but it is actually an obvious cage force that makes people shrink back. This is what the Bible says: “There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment” (1 John 4:18). This verse illuminates many fears in my heart. At that time, it seemed that I suddenly had the experience of finding light in the dark, finding a door in a dilemma, or using a stone knife to chisel my hardened heart.
The second aspect is that there is a book called The Hour That Changes the World, which says that it takes one hour every day to read the Bible, pray, and meditate on God’s Word to change yourself. Then, I am willing to spend an hour giving my heart constraint and strength.
The third aspect is that the secret to keeping grace is to give it away with love. However, people with depression will still have a problem; that is, they are very self-conscious and feel sorry for themselves, just like the paralytic in the New Testament, who had been paralyzed for 38 years and felt great self-pity and excessive bitterness. After being treated, people with depression need to live a life of sharing grace and blessings and caring for and helping the needs of other broken families. Then grace and positive energy will stay with the person.
The fourth aspect is that we need to constantly look at ourselves from a new perspective. For example, when I grew up for a period of time, I could sometimes go back to my family of origin or my hometown and take a new look, just as I would take a butterfly’s view to see myself in the nest I made during the caterpillar period. You will find that many of your ideas are subjective, and in yourself, there are many narrow and foolish ideas. This process of looking back can help your heart reflect well.
The fifth aspect is that we need to have our own Barnabas. Life is not about penance alone but about being supported in a loving relationship. This part also needs people to have a kind of search, seek to knock on the door actively, and even take the initiative to ask for help. Just as the woman said, “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table” (Matthew 15:27), which means to have such a gentle and formable mind.
Sixth, we need to learn to apologize to the people we have hurt. It is easy to ignore this piece, but in fact, repentance is necessary, like for Zacchaeus in the Bible. When we are immersed in our own world of righteousness, we will often hurt others. We need to take the initiative to go to some people we have hurt and then communicate with them. At this time, it is a good opportunity to witness their faith and preach the gospel to them, which is a more real opportunity to open your heart and establish relationships.
The seventh aspect is to distinguish two types of reflection: one is Judaism's reflection and the other is Peter’s reflection. Depression easily enters Judaic reflection. People need to let go of their own convictions and trial power. People with depression need to open the world of repentance experienced by the younger son in the prodigal son metaphor: I don’t deserve my father’s love, but my old father still forgives and accepts us, so my life is full of light and gratitude. Depression can’t just rely on medicine; even more psychological counseling is not enough because people are meant to be alive when they have a correct understanding of human spirituality.
Christian Times: What principles and methods will you follow in your specific process of consulting and helping patients?
Chen Boyu: Personally, I care about holistic therapy and perspective conversion therapy. There will be many changes in perspective in a person’s life, just as a caterpillar used to see the world from this place on the ground, but when it becomes a butterfly, the perspective will change, and then the mood will change. Consequently, the views on money, marriage, parenthood, and so on will change.
So in fact, the Bible helps us to have a new perspective and look at our lives and experiences from the perspective of God and truth. Sometimes it is a variety of counseling tools, just like a car, where the most important thing is who will drive it. Therefore, psychotherapy itself is an art, but in the hands of God, there must be a combination of the Word and technique, and these techniques should be used on the basis of the Word.
Christian Times: What do you think of the orientation and relationship between biblical psychotherapy and psychological counseling?
Chen Boyu: Sometimes, I seem to feel desperate and even have a victim mentality, but then I feel innocent. There will also be an unhealthy silence in Psalms, but in fact, there are various emotions in Psalms: anger, sadness, excitement, self-blame, complaint, repentance, and so on. Barnabas' team is needed in society and the church, which is an organ for detoxification. Serving according to the truth and with love can solve the poison in people’s hearts. If the church doesn’t do it, the social counselors will, but it is more like a hemodialysis organ. The “kidney organ” of the church can’t rot. If the church can’t use the “kidney” to detoxify, it will be thrown away, and the detoxification will have to depend on the “peripherals”.
In fact, psychological counseling itself originated from the function of the church, but this only means that this function has not been well built and passed down. When we want to help people with depression, we should have this concept called a multi-pronged approach. The first is to have a support system to promote the establishment of the church; the other is to have a kind of self-knowledge, and the pastor should provide the resources of Barnabas' team. From a social point of view, sometimes it also includes saying that we just need a pair of listening hearts, and sometimes we should not give advice to people with depression.
There is a short story about a man who wanted to commit suicide, but he said to God in his heart, “As long as I walk from here to the place where I am going to commit suicide and someone smiles at me, I will cancel this suicide plan.” If there is more goodness between people in life, sometimes it is worth a thousand words. People are meant to love and be loved, whereas money is meant to be used. The dislocation of the relationship between matter and people is a sin in the Bible, so the standards of social values sometimes need to be considered.
Professionals formed a service known as Stephen's Fellowship. They are professionally trained, but unlike consultants, they can meet the patients in the coffee shop, walk with them, or even exercise with them. Even if someone has a relative who has passed away, they can visit him regularly, but the consultant can’t do so. Being a helper also requires 70 hours of professional helper training, and a psychological counselor may need 600 hours of primary counselor training, with different degrees and settings.
Christian Times: Looking at the four people who jumped off the cliff on Tianmen Mountain, almost all of them had one feature, that is, “sunshine” depression. They are usually outgoing and seem to have no problems. They look normal on the outside, but there are hidden dark forces that lead them to commit suicide. How can we identify and rescue them in ordinary times?
Chen Boyu: The parable of the good Samaritan gives us the following enlightenment: firstly, there needs to be people who are willing to walk in the church; secondly, there needs to be the ability to walk in with love; thirdly, we will walk in, for example, in the past, we would see if the man’s cervical vertebra was injured; if his cervical vertebra was injured, we would go to see the person who was beaten; then we would pull him onto the donkey, and his cervical vertebra would be broken, so this is called walking in. That means that we need to have the knowledge to help others. The fourth is to dare to walk into the valley of the shadow of death for others. The so-called happy depression is actually when the person has many spiritual walls in his heart. Then in the physical aspect, for example, he suffers from insomnia for a long time, and then he has this kind of headache and palpitation, which can be distinguished from this psychological part, as well as inattention, decreased attention, and memory loss.
From an emotional point of view, for example, do you often want to cry? Maybe you will want to cry when you smile, and so on, like Mr. Beans, who also has severe depression. Some comedians can be "sunny", but there is actually depression behind them. There is such a sense of hopelessness in the control area; then there is a sense of uselessness in the truth area; then there is a sense of helplessness in the love area; and then there is that person in the central area who thinks he is nothing and will blame himself. They will feel that there are many wounds in their hearts that have not been healed. However, judging from the people around him, if he talks about suicidal thoughts, he needs to consult relevant people, and then sometimes he can make some referrals and do some crisis intervention and crisis assessment.
Suicide is also divided into several different stages:
The first stage is called standing on the river bank. At that time, the person wants to drift—that is to say, the suicide preparation stage.
The second stage is called the launching stage, meaning the person has already started to implement it, such as buying poison, finding a place, jumping, group chatting, and so on. This is like saying that he has put the paddle and boat into the water by drifting.
The third stage is to fall off the cliff. This is the implementation stage. Implementation does not mean that he will succeed. It's possible that he will hang on to a tree on the cliff or receive assistance from others. This is called suicide which has no success.
The fourth stage is that he has completely fallen.
This requires an event like Tianmen Mountain. Before it, there was actually a stage of standing on the shore, and then there was a stage of launching. Finally, they also had a stage of falling down. Then, in the fourth stage, they were completely unable to help themselves. More people need to have the knowledge and equipment to evaluate suicidal tendencies or popularize them in churches and public places like subway stations, just like if a person has heart problems, everyone will know how to use those golden minutes and how to use a defibrillator.
In fact, this kind of self-examination and evaluation of mental health also needs to be popularized. Then everyone should at least know that brothers and sisters in the church should have some knowledge and take precautions in advance. Of course, this is already firefighting, but it is better to learn to prevent a fire than to fight it. Once, Mother Teresa was asked how one could contribute to world peace. Mother Teresa said that you should go back and love your family. Then we need to reflect, believing that people are not meant to be manipulated and money is not meant to be loved, but not the other way around. People’s minds will naturally become healthy and powerful.
- Translated by Charlie Li
Dialogue: Senior Psychotherapist Shares Treatments for the Depressed
