In churches, there can be situations where the older generation disapproves of the younger generation's practices while the younger generation struggles to adapt to the ways of the older generation. How senior pastors pass the baton to new ones and whether the older and younger generations can work together harmoniously and effectively are the current issues troubling the church in China.
Rev. Liu Abraham from Taipei Revival Church discussed the possibility of harmonious cooperation between young pastors and the older generation at the Second Impact Asia Alliance Summit on November 3 in Jakarta, Indonesia.
Old church models might no longer apply to the current church situation.
Most churches have experienced a revival, with halls filled and periods of growth. However, when churches encounter stagnation or even decline and face topics like why young people are leaving the church today, there is a need to rediscover a model to bring about change in the church.
Liu pointed out that a new model is necessary because the old one may no longer be suitable for the present circumstances. The challenges churches face now are greater than before. It's not just about young people disliking or not attending church; it's about issues like these young people "not getting married." They don't feel the need to marry, believing they can fulfill all their needs, including physical and emotional, through the internet.
Two generations can coexist.
Liu's father, the former senior pastor of the church, suddenly fell ill in 2014. Young Liu had to start taking on some church responsibilities. At that time, many elders in the church who had watched him grow up considered him a "youngster."
He shared that for about six months, he liked hiding in his office after preaching: "I dared not shake hands or talk to believers." He was afraid of being compared to his father. Liu recalled that despite his efforts, people around him still gave him plenty of advice.
However, from 2014 to the present, over the past nine years, by God's grace, the church has experienced growth. Before the pandemic, the church had grown from 800 to 1,200 members, and post-pandemic, the number continued to rise to 1,500.
He shared his experience of church growth: "I believe it is possible for two generations to walk together, and there is a path to take." He sees Moses as a good model for church leaders, sharing the following points:
Joshua needs to learn obedience and honor towards Moses.
In the story of defeating the Amalekites, Moses instructed Joshua, who immediately took action. However, the way young people act is indeed different from that of the older generation. Liu said, "We must understand that obeying and honoring the elders is what God wants us to do."
He stated that he teaches young people to appreciate and be grateful for the contributions of the older generation to the church. He believes it's crucial to make them understand the history of their church by telling stories about their elders and how the church was built. "Obedience and honor are the foundations for generational unity," he added.
The new generation needs to live out "fearless faith," daring to innovate and try new things.
Liu mentioned that when Moses and Joshua were about to go into battle the next day, Joshua's response wasn't to postpone, never saying, "Let's prepare for another two weeks before fighting." Joshua demonstrated the confidence to face new things head-on.
He described opportunities at the church where young people could be creative. If there is no violation of the principle, Liu would step down from his pastor role and give the younger generation in the church a "right to demand." The gatherings organized by young members allowed them to take the lead: "Whatever they asked me to do, I did."
The pastor gave an example of a recent interesting activity designed for children at the church. They prepared a swimming pool filled with snacks, allowing children who memorized Bible verses to jump in and grab snacks. The result was that the kids were up by 8 a.m., dressed, and eager to attend the service with their parents.
Another impressive creative initiative for young Christians was a gathering featuring "magnitude"—everything was enlarged, such as the microphone being large, the pastor drinking from a one-liter water bottle, and even the font size on the presentation being huge.
Pastor Liu said that complying with the requests of young people in this way "let them know we stand with them."
There might be voices criticizing, "Don't turn God's house into this." Faced with these doubts, Pastor Liu's responded, "We can be creative in this way, as long as we don’t dilute the message of the gospel but deliver God's word well."
Each generation has different needs.
When Liu just became the senior pastor of the church, some elders suggested that the church worship team sing more classic old songs like "What a Friend We Have in Jesus." These elders also provided feedback that some newer songs had too fast rhythms and that the lyrics were changing on the PowerPoint before they finished reading them. When Pastor Liu relayed this request to the worship team, the young worship leaders hadn't heard of those songs, asking, "Pastor, what are these new songs?"
Liu shared that what moves them varies with each generation. When pastors and staff workers serve believers, they need to consider age differences and needs rather than select what they like or emphasize what moves them.
Moses imbues Joshua with strength and gives him full authority.
Before fighting the Amalekites, in the Bible, Moses instructed Joshua to "choose men" to go to battle with. Liu explained that this meant Moses was nurturing Joshua's ability to fight with enemies.
Lack of experience means young people need opportunities to learn and practice. History repeats itself, and one generation passes the baton to another. One problem that arises in churches is not giving young people the chance to participate in significant matters but assigning them tasks like moving heavy items, doing menial work, leading worship, etc. These happen because the older generation hasn't truly authorized the young people.
The senior generation needs to become a spiritual example for young people.
The power that gave Joshua victory in the battle was the prayer behind Moses. Whenever Moses raised his hands, the Israelites would win, and whenever he lowered them, the Amalekites would prevail.
Pastor Liu also prompted the congregation to reflect: "Are the current elders in the church setting a spiritual example for young people? Young people today pursue righteousness and authenticity. But if they see elders in the church being hypocritical or engaging in politics and power struggles, it's a kind of sadness."
Liu said to the elder pastors, "The best example we can give is to raise our hands in prayer. I believe that when God helps us in our difficult times, He will continue to help the next generation."
Moses dares to show vulnerability.
Liu stated that Moses, a wise elder, took Aaron and Hur with him to pray on the mountain when Joshua went to battle. Moses knew that even the strongest individuals could be weak, so he needed Aaron and Hur by his side.
Standing in a leadership position, over time, we may face a situation where nobody speaks the truth to us or lends a helping hand when we are weak. Moses set a very good example for us; he had people around him supporting him, which enabled him to continue to triumph.
Liu mentioned that in this harmonious relationship between two generations, our God can still proudly introduce Himself: "I have been the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob."
- Translated by Abigail Wu
教会中会出现老一辈人看不惯年轻人的做法，年轻人不适应老一辈的方式的情况。新老牧者如何顺利过渡和交棒，老一辈和年轻人能否和睦并有效同工，这是当下困扰国内教会的问题。
11月3日，在印尼雅加达举行的以《祂踏浪而来》为主题的第二届亚洲论坛影响力国际年会上，来自台北复兴堂的年轻牧者柳子骏牧师以《新世代牧者承接宣教使命》为题，以亲身经历与会众一起探讨年轻人和老一辈之间和睦同工的可能性。
旧的教会典范，可能已经不适用于现在的教会处境
教会大多都曾经有过复兴的经验——会堂坐满过人，曾有过增长的时期。但是，当教会碰到停滞甚至衰落的情况，遇到今天讨论的年轻人为什么离开教会，这些主题的时候，需要重新找到一个可以转移的“典范”，让教会发生改变。
柳子骏牧师指出，需要新的典范是因为旧的典范，可能已经不适用现在的处境。教会要面对的情况比之前的挑战更大。I世代的人，可能不只是讨厌教会、不上教会的问题，而是这些年轻人“不结婚”这个层面的问题，他们不觉得需要结婚，他们可以在网络上解决所有的需求，包括生理需求和心理需求。
两代同堂是可能的
柳子骏牧师的父亲是台北复兴堂的上一任主任牧师，但是2014年父亲忽然生病了。年轻的柳子俊牧师不得不开始接手一些教会的工作。那时候在教会的很多长辈是看他长大的，柳子俊也是这些长辈眼中的“年轻人”。
他分享说，有大半年的时间，他都处在一个“讲完道就躲在办公室里”的境况，“我不敢出来握手，不敢跟他们讲话”。他怕别人会拿他和他父亲比较。柳回忆说，他已经很努力了，但周边的人还是给他很多建议。
但是从2014年至今，过去9年中，因着上帝的恩典，台北复兴堂迎来了增长。疫情之前教会已经从800人增长到1200人，疫情之后，持续增长到了1500人聚会。
亲身经历教会增长的柳子骏牧师分享说：“我觉得两代同行是一定有可能的，而且一定有路可以走。”在摩西和约书亚身上看到了可以转移的“典范”。
约书亚需要学会顺服和尊荣摩西
在这个故事中看到，摩西对约书亚说了怎么做，约书亚马上就行动。年轻人确实有很多做风和老一辈是不一样的。柳子骏牧师说：“但是我们要了解，这就是属灵的原则——顺服跟尊荣（长辈），就是上帝要我们做的。”
柳说，他教年轻人们去欣赏和感恩老一辈人对教会的付出。他认为，给年轻人讲长辈们的故事，讲教会怎么被建造的，让大家了解自己教会的历史很重要，“顺服跟尊荣，才会带下年代合一的基础。”
约书亚一代需要活出“无惧的信心”，大胆创新和尝试
柳说：当摩西和约书亚说明天就要打仗，约书亚的反应并不是推迟，“要预备两个礼拜再打。”约书亚表现出来的是直面新的东西，直接去打的信心。
他介绍说，在复兴堂有让青年人可以发挥创意的机会。在一些不触及原则的事情上，柳子俊牧师会放下自己牧师的身份给教会的年轻人一种“要求权”。教会做的聚会，让年轻人自己来发起，“他们让我做什么，我就做什么。”
牧师举例说，复兴堂最近做了一个给儿童的有意思的活动。预备了一个放满了零食的游泳池，让背完经句的孩子们可以跳下去拿零食。结果是，当天小孩子们八点就起来穿好衣服，抓着爸妈要去做礼拜。
还有一个印象深刻的年轻人创意是做了一场“巨大”的聚会——所有的东西都被放大了，比如话筒很大，牧师喝的水是一升容量的瓶装水，当天PPT的字号也是巨大的。
柳牧师说，当他顺应年轻人的要求这么做的时候，会“让他们知道我们跟他们站在一起。”
可能有声音会指责：你们不要不要把神的殿搞成这样。面对这些质疑声，柳子骏牧师的回应是：“我们可以这么创意，但是我们的讲道（信息）不要稀释，好好传讲神的话。”
互相体恤不同和需求——每个世代需求不同
柳刚上任的时候，一些长辈们提议教会敬拜团唱一些比较经典的老歌，比如《恩友歌》。这些长辈们也反馈一些新的诗歌节奏太快，歌词还没有看完，PPT就翻页了。柳子俊牧师向敬拜团提这个要求的时候，年轻的敬拜领袖们也没有听过那些歌，反过来问：“牧师，这是什么新歌呀？”
柳子骏牧师分享说，每一个世代感动他们的东西是不一样的。牧者，同工在侍奉信徒时，需要考虑这种年龄层和需求的差异性，而不是强调“我”觉得感动的，“我”觉得好的。
摩西需要培养约书亚的实力——充分的授权
在和亚玛力人打仗之前，在圣经中看到摩西让约书亚去“选人”，去选出一同打仗的人。柳子骏牧师解释说，这意味着摩西在培养约书亚出去打仗的实力。
年轻人是需要经验，也缺乏经验，但历史是一代过去，一代又来的，老一辈的牧者同工，总要培养并交棒给年轻人。教会出现的一个问题是，在重要的事情上不给年轻人机会参与，但是又让年轻人做很多比如：搬重物、粗活，带敬拜，这样的事情。这些都是因为老一辈对年轻人没有做到真正的授权。
摩西要成为年轻人属灵的榜样
约书亚在战争中能得胜的力量，是摩西在后面的祷告。摩西何时举手。以色列人就得胜；何时垂手，亚玛力人就得胜。
柳牧师也引会众反思，现在的长辈们在教会给年轻人看到的形象是不是属灵的榜样呢？现在年轻人追求公义、真实。但是如果他们看到教会的长辈都在虚假、政治化，勾心斗角，这是一种悲哀。
柳对老一辈牧者说：“我们能给出的最好的榜样就是举手祷告。相信上帝曾经在我们这一代也不好的时候，神帮助我们，我们仍然相信祂会继续帮助下一代人。”
摩西需要展现脆弱的勇气
柳说，摩西是非常有智慧的长辈，当约书亚去打仗的时候，他带着亚伦和户珥同他上山祷告。因为摩西知道再强的人都会软弱，所以他需要亚伦和户珥在身边。
站在领袖的位置上，时间久了会不会出现“当我们脆弱的时候，没有人可以跟我们说真话，没有人在旁边扶我们的手”这样的情况呢？摩西给我们树立了一个非常好的榜样，他的周围有人扶持他，让他可以继续得胜。
柳说，在这种两代人和睦的关系中，我们的神依然可以自豪的介绍自己，“我做过亚伯拉罕的神，以撒的神，亚伯拉罕的神。”
柳子骏牧师分享年轻人和老一辈如何更好配搭服侍神
In churches, there can be situations where the older generation disapproves of the younger generation's practices while the younger generation struggles to adapt to the ways of the older generation. How senior pastors pass the baton to new ones and whether the older and younger generations can work together harmoniously and effectively are the current issues troubling the church in China.
Rev. Liu Abraham from Taipei Revival Church discussed the possibility of harmonious cooperation between young pastors and the older generation at the Second Impact Asia Alliance Summit on November 3 in Jakarta, Indonesia.
Old church models might no longer apply to the current church situation.
Most churches have experienced a revival, with halls filled and periods of growth. However, when churches encounter stagnation or even decline and face topics like why young people are leaving the church today, there is a need to rediscover a model to bring about change in the church.
Liu pointed out that a new model is necessary because the old one may no longer be suitable for the present circumstances. The challenges churches face now are greater than before. It's not just about young people disliking or not attending church; it's about issues like these young people "not getting married." They don't feel the need to marry, believing they can fulfill all their needs, including physical and emotional, through the internet.
Two generations can coexist.
Liu's father, the former senior pastor of the church, suddenly fell ill in 2014. Young Liu had to start taking on some church responsibilities. At that time, many elders in the church who had watched him grow up considered him a "youngster."
He shared that for about six months, he liked hiding in his office after preaching: "I dared not shake hands or talk to believers." He was afraid of being compared to his father. Liu recalled that despite his efforts, people around him still gave him plenty of advice.
However, from 2014 to the present, over the past nine years, by God's grace, the church has experienced growth. Before the pandemic, the church had grown from 800 to 1,200 members, and post-pandemic, the number continued to rise to 1,500.
He shared his experience of church growth: "I believe it is possible for two generations to walk together, and there is a path to take." He sees Moses as a good model for church leaders, sharing the following points:
Joshua needs to learn obedience and honor towards Moses.
In the story of defeating the Amalekites, Moses instructed Joshua, who immediately took action. However, the way young people act is indeed different from that of the older generation. Liu said, "We must understand that obeying and honoring the elders is what God wants us to do."
He stated that he teaches young people to appreciate and be grateful for the contributions of the older generation to the church. He believes it's crucial to make them understand the history of their church by telling stories about their elders and how the church was built. "Obedience and honor are the foundations for generational unity," he added.
The new generation needs to live out "fearless faith," daring to innovate and try new things.
Liu mentioned that when Moses and Joshua were about to go into battle the next day, Joshua's response wasn't to postpone, never saying, "Let's prepare for another two weeks before fighting." Joshua demonstrated the confidence to face new things head-on.
He described opportunities at the church where young people could be creative. If there is no violation of the principle, Liu would step down from his pastor role and give the younger generation in the church a "right to demand." The gatherings organized by young members allowed them to take the lead: "Whatever they asked me to do, I did."
The pastor gave an example of a recent interesting activity designed for children at the church. They prepared a swimming pool filled with snacks, allowing children who memorized Bible verses to jump in and grab snacks. The result was that the kids were up by 8 a.m., dressed, and eager to attend the service with their parents.
Another impressive creative initiative for young Christians was a gathering featuring "magnitude"—everything was enlarged, such as the microphone being large, the pastor drinking from a one-liter water bottle, and even the font size on the presentation being huge.
Pastor Liu said that complying with the requests of young people in this way "let them know we stand with them."
There might be voices criticizing, "Don't turn God's house into this." Faced with these doubts, Pastor Liu's responded, "We can be creative in this way, as long as we don’t dilute the message of the gospel but deliver God's word well."
Each generation has different needs.
When Liu just became the senior pastor of the church, some elders suggested that the church worship team sing more classic old songs like "What a Friend We Have in Jesus." These elders also provided feedback that some newer songs had too fast rhythms and that the lyrics were changing on the PowerPoint before they finished reading them. When Pastor Liu relayed this request to the worship team, the young worship leaders hadn't heard of those songs, asking, "Pastor, what are these new songs?"
Liu shared that what moves them varies with each generation. When pastors and staff workers serve believers, they need to consider age differences and needs rather than select what they like or emphasize what moves them.
Moses imbues Joshua with strength and gives him full authority.
Before fighting the Amalekites, in the Bible, Moses instructed Joshua to "choose men" to go to battle with. Liu explained that this meant Moses was nurturing Joshua's ability to fight with enemies.
Lack of experience means young people need opportunities to learn and practice. History repeats itself, and one generation passes the baton to another. One problem that arises in churches is not giving young people the chance to participate in significant matters but assigning them tasks like moving heavy items, doing menial work, leading worship, etc. These happen because the older generation hasn't truly authorized the young people.
The senior generation needs to become a spiritual example for young people.
The power that gave Joshua victory in the battle was the prayer behind Moses. Whenever Moses raised his hands, the Israelites would win, and whenever he lowered them, the Amalekites would prevail.
Pastor Liu also prompted the congregation to reflect: "Are the current elders in the church setting a spiritual example for young people? Young people today pursue righteousness and authenticity. But if they see elders in the church being hypocritical or engaging in politics and power struggles, it's a kind of sadness."
Liu said to the elder pastors, "The best example we can give is to raise our hands in prayer. I believe that when God helps us in our difficult times, He will continue to help the next generation."
Moses dares to show vulnerability.
Liu stated that Moses, a wise elder, took Aaron and Hur with him to pray on the mountain when Joshua went to battle. Moses knew that even the strongest individuals could be weak, so he needed Aaron and Hur by his side.
Standing in a leadership position, over time, we may face a situation where nobody speaks the truth to us or lends a helping hand when we are weak. Moses set a very good example for us; he had people around him supporting him, which enabled him to continue to triumph.
Liu mentioned that in this harmonious relationship between two generations, our God can still proudly introduce Himself: "I have been the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob."
- Translated by Abigail Wu
Pastor Suggests How Young, Senior Pastors Collaborate in Ministry
