Editor’s note: Ravit Baer, Consul General of Israel in Shanghai, shares her impressions of China and its rapid development since taking office in January 2023 in an exclusive interview with China Christian Daily. Born as a Jew and raised in Jerusalem, she delves into the historical connections between the Jewish community and China, the current state of Jewish life in the country, and the rich cultural and religious ties between Israel and China. Baer also highlights the importance of education, tradition, and modernity in Israeli society and expresses her hopes for future cultural and religious exchanges between the two nations.
China Christian Daily: Since you took office as the consul general in Shanghai in January 2023, what impressions do you have of Shanghai and China?
Ravit Baer: During my entire career as a diplomat over the past few years, I mainly served in places like Ivory Coast, Cyprus, or San Francisco and dealt heavily with the European Union. However, this is my first experience with China. China is incredibly developed. It's incredible to see how fast things are developing here, such as the construction of infrastructure, scientific development, and economic growth. It's quite unique, as I'm used to Western bureaucracy, where things tend to take a little longer.
China Christian Daily: Shanghai and Israel have had many historical connections, the most famous being the Shanghai Jewish Refugees Museum, which tells the story of the Jewish community living alongside local Shanghai residents during World War II. What are your comments on this period of history?
Ravit Baer: It is important to say that there is a difference between the relations between China and the Jewish people and those between China and Israel. Historically, Jewish presence in China started hundreds of years ago, with prominent groups including Jews who came from Russia to Harbin and those who arrived from Iraq into Shanghai. There is a story of Jews who fled the Holocaust in Europe during the early 1940s of World War II. The only refuge place they could find in the world was Shanghai. About 20,000 Jews from Austria, Germany, and other European countries fled Europe from the Nazis, who murdered over a third of the Jewish people, namely six million. But 20,000 of them managed to escape. They came here to Shanghai, where they inhabited the region of Hongkou, survived here, and had interesting relations with their Chinese neighbors.
I would recommend anyone interested in that story to visit the museum that tells the story. Located in Hongkou District, the museum for Jewish refugees in Shanghai was an endeavor that was done by the Shanghai municipality. When you're there, try to explore the history of relations between China and Israel. As Israel was established in 1948, many of the refugees that came to Shanghai ended up in Israel, and some went to the U.S. There are quite a few second and third generations of these refugees in Israel.
But the actual relations between China and Israel all started with the very establishment of the state of Israel and modern China. In 1949, Israel was one of the first countries to recognize China. Diplomatic relations were established in 1992, and the consulate in Shanghai was opened in 1994. This year, we are celebrating 30 years since the establishment of the Consulate General of Israel in Shanghai. Over the last 30 years in Shanghai, many developments have occurred in relations between Israel and China. Many Chinese experts went to Israel to study medicine and agriculture. Since we had an advantage in technological capabilities, we were always happy to share them with China.
China Christian Daily: Can you introduce the situation of Jews in China? As far as we are concerned, there is the Ohel Rachel Synagogue (Seymour Synagogue) in Shanghai. Can you describe the gatherings of Jews at the synagogue in China? Are there any other open synagogues in other parts of China?
Ravit Baer: The Jewish population in China today is very small. I cannot say we have a community, but there are a few Jewish centers in Shanghai where one can celebrate Jewish life and holidays. You can also follow Jewish traditions, such as circumcision, which is the procedure that we do on a baby male on the eighth day to mark him joining the Jewish people. You can do bar (bat) mitzvah, which is also a ceremony that is at the age of 13 for boys and at the age of 12 for girls that marks their entering the mature life. Anything that has to do with the Jewish life cycle can also be done in those Jewish centers, and they also have a school for Hebrew and Jewish life.
I would estimate there are a few thousand people who identify as Jewish, living here for various reasons, such as marriage, work, or study, but they're kind of scattered because they come from different nationalities and they do have joint religions.
There are two historical synagogues in Shanghai, one within the Jewish Refugees Museum. I don't think it functions as a synagogue today, but it still holds the characteristics of a synagogue. The second one is the Ohel Rachel Synagogue, built in the 1920s by the Jews who came here from Iraq. It’s a gorgeous building. Unfortunately, it is not used regularly for Jewish life but only celebrates major holidays because it needs renovation. We have tried to look into options for possible renovations, and it is owned by the Shanghai government, so it's their responsibility. We hope that one day it will function as a full-time synagogue, giving service all year round. Besides that, I think there is a synagogue in Harbin.
China Christian Daily: Can you give a brief introduction to the religion and culture of Israel? As Christianity originated from Judaism, what is the current number of Christians in Israel, and what is their life like?
Ravit Baer: Religion is the center of Israel, such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Historically, it always drew attention to it, way before the state of Israel was established. For Jews, this is the Holy Land where Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob established our Jewish faith and also the promised land for the Jewish people, the chosen people.
This is also the Holy Land, where Christianity began, where Jesus lived, was born, walked on the Sea of Galilee, etc. He was born in Nazareth and passed away in Jerusalem. So there are a lot of relics that are connected to Christian life and a multitude of churches in Israel. In the 19th century, every major superpower in the world built a church in Jerusalem or elsewhere. I was born and raised in Jerusalem, and I know that everywhere you go, you can find a Russian, Catholic, or British Anglican church. The variety of Christian life there is also pretty astounding because it's not just one denomination.
According to the National Bureau of Statistics, there are 185,000 Christians in Israel, about 75% of whom are Arab by ethnic origin. It accounts for a little less than 2% of the population. They are well-educated, more women than men, well-integrated into society, and have good relations with the rest of society and the government. All in all, I think Christian life is flourishing in Israel under complete freedom of worship and freedom of religion. It is important for us, specifically as the Jewish people, that our freedom of religion in our country is for any denomination and anyone interested, since we've been prosecuted for thousands of years because of our religion.
China Christian Daily: How many Chinese people live in Israel, and what is their life like?
Ravit Baer: We don't have an actual number due to our limited immigration laws, but there are small Chinese communities that often have married Israeli citizens. Chinese students also study in Israel, and some of them have remained for many years. There is also quite a large number of workers who came from China and resided in Israel for limited periods—five years or so. They work mostly in the construction field in Israel. They are probably the largest Chinese groups in Israel. They have their community and life, but they are not intended to stay in Israel, only for a limited time.
China Christian Daily: Israel places great importance on culture and tourism. Many Chinese Christians have undertaken pilgrimages to the Holy Land. What do you hope these Christian tourists gain from their visits? Does Israel have any specific programs or policies related to this?
Ravit Baer: We have the most important sites for Christianity in Israel, like the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Church of Annunciation in Nazareth. About 50% of all tourists to Israel are Christians, and about 15% come specifically for pilgrimages. Christian visitors have a strong emotional experience witnessing the places where the New Testament happened. As someone who grew up in Israel, specifically in Jerusalem, I'm used to seeing pilgrims all over. There is also a very strong Christian presence in Israel. Everywhere you go, you will see monasteries, churches, and missions.
In that sense, the Ministry of Tourism and the government on its own have programs to facilitate and support infrastructure for Christian tourism. We have a very established tourism infrastructure for Christian tourists. We participate in international fairs that are related to that. Since October 7, Israel has been entangled in a war. It is heartwarming and encouraging that many Christian communities around the world have been incredibly supportive in our fight for our quiet existence. We have seen many Christian groups coming for solidarity visits in Israel, historically supporting and enhancing those relations between the Jewish religion and the Christian religion. For many years, Christians and Jews have not gotten along well. We have a historical phenomenon of being prosecuted by Christianity, and today what we're seeing is something different. We're seeing friendship and comradeship between the two religions. I do hope we'll have peaceful days coming, and when they do, we'll be happy to see Christian visitors to Israel from anywhere in the world, and definitely from China.
China Christian Daily: Israel emphasizes tradition and also religion, but it is a modern society. How can you maintain the balance between tradition and modernity?
Ravit Baer: Judaism has always been about education as a religion. One of the most basic calls in the faith is to learn and to teach your children. Ultra-orthodox Jews put their kids at school at the age of three. This is why, historically, Jews have been successful in education, business, and anything that requires knowledge and education.
The Zionist movement, which started at the end of the 19th century, looked at how we take our values as Jews. Theodore Herzl, a Jewish journalist from Austria, was the person who worked to create a country for the Jews. He wrote a book about how this country is going to look and created this balance between Jewish life, which is more traditional and conservative, and a modern country with modern values. In reality, when Jews immigrated to Israel, they came with a lot of motivation to create the best country, something advanced and progressive. For example, my older brother is an orthodox Jew who keeps Shabbat. He doesn't turn on the light over the weekend, but on the other hand, he is an electronics engineer developing the most advanced semiconductors.
Personally speaking, I don't look at modernity and secularism as something negative. As a Jewish person, my Jewish heritage and background are extremely important to me. I teach my kids Hebrew, we mark all the Jewish holidays and celebrate the Jewish life cycle. My son was circumcised, and both my kids had bar mitzvah and bat mitzvah. I lived in San Francisco for four years, but we did not have a Christmas tree because of Judaism, while everyone else did. On the other hand, I also believe in freedom. It's always important for me to find the balance between being a Jew and making sure that my kids understand that they are Jewish and to pass it along to their kids, but on the other hand, being free and not confined by strict rules brings Judaism to the 21st century.
China Christian Daily: You said that Judaism pays special attention to education. Israel is also known for its technology and culture. What do you think the world can learn from your country?
Ravit Baer: We've always been a problem-solving country because we didn't have a choice. Since its establishment, Israel has faced wars and a lack of natural resources because it’s mostly desert. They say in the Bible that this is the land of milk and honey, but in reality, it's a dry land, so we had to find solutions. If we didn't have water, we needed to find water solutions, so drip irrigation and desalination processes were invented in Israel.
We knew that we had to invest in higher education and research due to the lack of natural resources. Our real natural resources are our minds and our human resources. We always had to find a solution to a problem. Those solutions often became cutting-edge technologies, for example, the idea of portable memory was invented in Israel to solve the actual problem of transferring information from one computer to another. The idea of a navigation system was also invented because GPS does not tell us the locations of traffic jams, and now it’s owned by Google.
China Christian Daily: What are your expectations for future cultural and religious exchanges between Israel and China?
Ravit Baer: During the past 30 years, we have had wonderful exchanges in the fields of academic cooperation and cultural exchange. There were so many performances that came to China and Israel, and we had wonderful relations. We have many sister city exchanges, for example, Shanghai and the city of Haifa, in the northern part of Israel, and Changzhou and the city of Netanya. Historically, we share many similarities between the Jewish people and the Chinese people, being family-oriented people with 3,000 years of history and an emphasis on education and family ties. I think that brings us together as people. While the Chinese people are 1.4 billion people, the entire Jewish population of the world is around 15 million people, and in Israel, less than eight million Jews. So this is the huge difference between the two sides.
But now we need to wait a little for quieter days and more peaceful days. However, I do think the potential is huge. Things had been difficult because during COVID-19, there was no tourism, but just in the year since I came here in January 2023, we have seen so much interest in visits and cooperation between January and September and so many cultural activities happening. So I hope that we'll be able to see a lot of Chinese tourism coming through Israel. I think Israel also offers a lot as far as entertainment, culture, weather, scenery, and archaeological findings.
As far as culture is concerned, I think we love one another's culture. We were supposed to have here a few theaters from Israel, including the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra. There were so many things that were on the pipe that unfortunately did not happen, but I think they will happen. There is appreciation and interest in what Israel has to offer: classical music, modern dance, world music, jazz, and so on. There is interest and curiosity in Israel about Chinese culture. We are always interested in seeing culture coming from China, whether it is plastic art, relics, or craft, but also modern artists and musicians. We have a very good basis for collaboration, and I hope we can renew it sooner rather than later.
As for religious exchanges, they happen naturally without the involvement of the State of Israel. It is important to create an atmosphere and an infrastructure for religious life. Therefore, we support religious institutions to make sure that they feel comfortable and free to cooperate with whomever they want and to host them.
China Christian Daily: Do you have any words for Chinese Christians?
Ravit Baer: You are all invited to visit the Holy Land to see where your history and our history start and continue. I hope we'll be able to create this connection between people and enhance it in the future. I want to thank anyone who has been supportive of us in the last eight months. Throughout the history of the state of Israel, this connection has been a mark of a better future.
View the interview video here
编者按：以色列驻上海总领事白乐潍（Ravit Baer）女士在接受《China Christian Daily》独家专访时，赞叹于2023年1月自她上任以来看到中国的快速发展。作为一名出生并成长于耶路撒冷的犹太人，她深入探讨了犹太社区与中国之间的历史渊源、犹太人在中国的生活现状以及两国之间丰富的文化和宗教联系。白乐潍强调了教育、传统和现代性在以色列社会中的重要性，并表达了她对两国未来在文化和宗教交流方面的期待。
China Christian Daily：自2023年1月就任驻上海总领事以来，您对上海和中国的印象是什么样的？
白乐潍：过去几年的外交官生涯中，我的工作地主要在科特迪瓦、塞浦路斯或旧金山等地，与欧盟打交道较多。（2023年1月，就任驻上海总领事），这是我第一次接触中国。中国的发展令人难以置信。这里的基础设施建设、科学发展和经济增长速度之快令人吃惊。 这些让我感到中国很特别，尤其是在习惯了西方那种往往需要花更长的时间来处理事情的官僚作风后。
China Christian Daily：上海和以色列曾有许多历史渊源，其中最著名的是上海犹太难民纪念馆，它讲述了二战期间犹太社区与上海当地居民共同生活的故事。您如何看待这段历史？
白乐潍：重要的是需要知道，中国和犹太人之间的关系与中国和以色列之间的关系是不同的。从历史上看，犹太人在中国生活始于数百年前，主要群体包括从俄罗斯来到哈尔滨的犹太人和从伊拉克来到上海的犹太人。有这样一个故事：在二战期间，20世纪40年代初，犹太人为了躲避欧洲的大屠杀而来到中国。当时，在世界上唯一一处能找到的避难所就是上海。大约有两万名来自奥地利、德国和其他欧洲国家的犹太人逃离欧洲，躲避纳粹的追杀。纳粹杀害了超过三分之一的犹太人，即六百万人，他们当中有两万人成功逃脱来到了上海，居住在虹口区，在这里幸存了下来，并与他们的中国邻居建立了有趣的关系。
我建议对这个故事有兴趣的人可以去参观讲述这个故事的纪念馆。上海犹太难民纪念馆位于虹口区，该纪念馆的存在离不开上海市政府的努力。在那里，您可以尝试探索中国和以色列之间的关系史。1948年以色列建国后，许多来到上海的难民最后都去了以色列，还有一些去了美国。在以色列有相当多这些曾来过中国的犹太人的二代或三代难民后裔。
但是，中国和以色列之间的实质性关系始于以色列国和现代中国的建立。1949 年，以色列是最早承认中国的国家之一。两国于1992年建立外交关系，并于1994年在上海开设领事馆。今年，我们将庆祝以色列驻上海总领事馆成立30周年。在上海的30年里，以色列和中国的关系取得了许多进展。许多中国专家前往以色列学习医学和农业。我们在技术能力方面具有优势，我们也一直很乐意与中国分享这些。
China Christian Daily： 您能介绍一下犹太人在中国的情况吗？比如我们之前听说过的上海有拉结会堂（又称西摩会堂）。您能否介绍一下犹太人在中国犹太会堂聚会的情况？中国其他地方还有开放的犹太会堂吗？
白乐潍：目前中国的犹太人口非常少。我不能说我们有一个犹太人社区，但在上海有几个犹太中心，人们可以在那里庆祝犹太人的生活和节日，可以做一些遵循犹太传统的事情，比如割礼，这是我们在男婴出生后第8天为他做的手术，标志着他成为了犹太人。那里还可以举行成年礼，男孩在 13 岁、女孩在 12 岁时举行的仪式，标志着他们进入成熟的生命阶段。任何与犹太人生命周期有关的事情都可以在这些犹太中心进行，他们还有一所教授希伯来语和犹太人生活的学校。
我估计有几千犹太人，因结婚、工作或学习等各种原因住在这里（中国），但他们有点分散，因为他们来自不同的国籍，不过他们确实有着共同的犹太教信仰。
上海有两座历史悠久的犹太会堂，其中一座位于犹太难民纪念馆内。我记得它现今已经不作为犹太会堂被使用了，但它仍保留着犹太会堂的特征。第二座就是拉结会堂，它由从伊拉克来到这里的犹太人建于20世纪20年代。这是一座非常漂亮的建筑。遗憾的是，由于需要翻修，它不能经常用于犹太人的日常聚集，只能用于庆祝重大节日。我们一直在努力寻找可能的翻新方案。这所会堂属于上海市政府所有，他们也会负责考虑翻修。我们希望有一天它能成为一个全时间都可以被使用的犹太会堂，全年提供服务。除此之外，我想哈尔滨也有一座犹太会堂。
China Christian Daily： 您能简单介绍一下以色列的宗教和文化吗？基督教起源于犹太教，目前以色列的基督徒人数有多少，他们生活得怎样？
白乐潍：宗教是以色列的中心，如犹太教、基督教和伊斯兰教。从历史上看，早在以色列建国之前，宗教就一直备受关注。对犹太人来说，这里是亚伯拉罕、以撒和雅各建立犹太教信仰的圣地，也是犹太民族、选民们的应许之地。
这里也是基督教的圣地，是耶稣生活、诞生、在加利利海边行走的地方等等。他在拿撒勒出生，在耶路撒冷去世。因此，这里有许多与基督徒生活、以色列众多教堂相关的遗迹。19世纪的各个大国都曾在耶路撒冷或其他地方建造了教堂。我出生和成长在耶路撒冷，我知道无论你走到哪里，都能找到俄罗斯风格、天主教或英国圣公会的教堂。那里基督徒生活的多样性也相当惊人，因为它不只是一个教派。
根据以色列国家统计局的数据，以色列有18.5万名基督徒，其中约75%是阿拉伯裔。他们占总人口的比例略低于2%。他们受过良好的教育，女性多于男性，能很好地融入社会，并与社会其他群体和政府保持良好的关系。总之，我认为在以色列的完全的信仰自由和宗教自由下，当地的基督徒群体在蓬勃成长。对我们——特别是犹太人来说重要的是，我们国家的任何教派和任何对之感兴趣的人都享有宗教自由，因为我们曾因宗教遭受过数千年的迫害。
China Christian Daily： 有多少中国人生活在以色列，他们的生活是怎样的？
白乐潍：由于我们的移民法的限制性，我们无法统计出实际数字，但有一些与以色列公民结婚的小的华人社区。中国学生也在以色列学习，其中一些已经在以色列生活了很多年。还有相当多的工人来自中国，他们在以色列居住有时限— —五年左右。他们主要在以色列的建筑行业工作。他们可能是以色列最大的华人群体。他们有自己的社区和生活，但他们并不打算留在以色列，只会呆一段时间。
China Christian Daily： 以色列非常重视文化和旅游。许多中国基督徒去圣地旅游。您期望这些基督徒游客从他们的到访中获得什么？以色列在这方面有什么具体的计划或政策吗？
白乐潍：以色列有最重要的基督教圣地，如圣墓教堂（Church of the Holy Sepulchre）和拿撒勒的天使报喜堂（Church of Annunciation in Nazareth）。到以色列旅游的游客中约有50%是基督徒，约有15%是专门来朝圣的。基督徒游客在目睹新约故事发生的地方时，会产生强烈的情感体验。作为一个在以色列，特别是在耶路撒冷长大的人，我习惯了到处看到朝圣者。以色列的基督徒也非常多。无论你走到哪里，都会看到修道院、教堂和布道团。
从这个意义上说，旅游部和政府都有促进和支持基督徒旅游基础设施建设的计划。我们为基督徒游客建立了非常完善的旅游基础设施。我们参加了与此相关的国际博览会。自2023年10月7日以来，以色列一直陷入在战争中。令人欣慰的是，世界各地许多基督徒团体许多基督徒团体来到以色列进行了人道主义援助。多年来，基督徒和犹太人相处得并不融洽。历史上，犹太人一直受到基督教的迫害，而今天我们看到的情况有所不同。我们看到了两种宗教之间的友谊和同志情谊。我真的希望和平的日子到来，到那时，我们会欢迎更多来自世界各地的基督徒游客来以色列，当然也包括来自中国的游客。
China Christian Daily： 以色列强调传统和宗教，但它也是一个现代社会。如何保持传统与现代之间的平衡？
白乐潍：犹太教非常注重教育。犹太信仰中最基本的要求之一就是学习和教导自己的孩子。犹太教正统派会在孩子三岁时就让他们上学。这也是历史上，犹太人在教育、商业以及任何需要知识和教育的领域之所以取得成功的原因。
始于19世纪末的犹太复国主义运动研究了作为犹太人，我们如何看待自己的价值观。来自奥地利的犹太记者西奥多·赫茨尔(Theodore Herzl)致力于为犹太人建立一个国家。他写了一本关于这个国家将会是什么样子的书，并在犹太人的生活（比较传统和保守）和一个具有现代价值观的现代国家之间建立了平衡。实际上，当犹太人移民到以色列时，他们怀有很大的动力来创立一个先进和进步的最好的国家。例如，我的哥哥是一个遵守安息日的正统犹太人。他周末不开灯，但另一方面，他是一名电子工程师，正在开发最先进的半导体。
就我个人而言，我并不认为现代性和世俗主义是负面的。作为犹太人，我的犹太传统和背景对我来说极其重要。我教我的孩子们希伯来语，我们庆祝所有的犹太节日，庆祝犹太人的生命周期。我的儿子接受了割礼，我的两个孩子都举行了成人礼和成年礼。我在旧金山住了四年，但因为信的是犹太教，我们没有圣诞树，而其他人都有。另一方面，我也相信自由。对我来说，在作为一个犹太人和确保我的孩子们明白他们是犹太人并将其传给他们的孩子之间找到平衡始终是很重要的，但另一方面，自由而不受严格规则的限制也将犹太教带入了 21 世纪。
China Christian Daily： 您分享说犹太教特别重视教育。以色列也以科技和文化著称。您认为世界可以从贵国学到什么？
白乐潍：我们一直是一个善于解决问题的国家，因为我们别无选择。以色列自建国以来，一直面临着战争和自然资源匮乏的问题，因为以色列大部分地区都是沙漠。圣经中说这里是流奶与蜜之地，但实际上，这里是一片干旱的土地，所以我们必须想办法。例如，我们没有水，就需要找到水的解决方案，因此以色列发明了滴灌和海水淡化技术。
我们知道，由于缺乏自然资源，我们必须投资高等教育和研究。我们真正的自然资源是我们的思想和人力资源。我们总是处于需要找到解决办法的处境中。这些解决方案往往都成为了尖端技术，例如，便携式存储器是以色列发明的，以解决将信息从一台计算机传输到另一台计算机的实际问题。导航系统也是因为GPS无法告诉我们交通堵塞的位置而被发明的，现在它已经归谷歌公司所有。
China Christian Daily：您对以中两国未来的文化和宗教交流有何期待？
白乐潍：在过去的30年里，我们在学术合作和文化交流方面进行了精彩的交流。有很多演出来到中国和以色列，我们的关系也非常融洽。我们有很多姐妹城市，比如上海和以色列北部的海法市，常州市和内坦亚市。从历史上看，犹太人和中国人有许多相似之处，我们都是注重家庭的民族，都有三千年的历史，都重视教育和家庭关系。我认为这一点让我们走到了一起。中国有14亿人口，而全世界的犹太人约有1500万，以色列的犹太人不到800万。这方面双方差异巨大。
但现在，我们需要等待更安详、更和平的日子。不过，我认为潜力是巨大的。因为在新冠疫情期间，旅游业停滞了，情况变得困难，但就在我2023年1月来到这里后的这一年里，我们看到在1月至9月期间人们对访问和合作非常感兴趣，而且有很多文化活动。因此，我希望我们能够看到很多中国游客来以色列旅游。我认为以色列在娱乐、文化、气候、风景和考古发现方面也有很多值得一看的地方。
就文化而言，我认为我们彼此热爱彼此的文化。我们原本计划在这里本邀请几个来自以色列的剧院，包括以色列爱乐乐团。有很多计划中的活动，但遗憾的是没有实现，但我认为它们会实现的。人们对以色列提供的古典音乐、现代舞蹈、世界音乐、爵士乐等表示赞赏和有兴趣。以色列人也对中国文化充满兴趣和好奇。我们一直对来自中国的文化很感兴趣，无论是造型艺术、文物还是工艺品，也包括现代艺术家和音乐家。我们有很好的合作基础，我希望我们能尽快重续这种合作关系。
至于宗教交流，它们是自然发生的，不需要以色列国家的参与。为宗教生活创造一种氛围和基础设施很重要。因此，我们支持宗教机构，以确保他们能放心、自由地与他们想要合作的人合作并接待他们。
China Christian Daily： 您有什么话要对中国基督徒说吗？
白乐潍：欢迎大家来圣地参观，看看你们的历史开始的地方，也看看我们的历史开始和延续的地方。我希望我们能够建立这种人与人之间的联系，并在未来加强这种联系。感谢过去八个月来支持我们的所有人。在以色列国历史上，这种联系一直是更美好未来的标志。
专访｜以色列驻上海总领事白乐潍女士：期待中以之间有更多文化交流
Editor’s note: Ravit Baer, Consul General of Israel in Shanghai, shares her impressions of China and its rapid development since taking office in January 2023 in an exclusive interview with China Christian Daily. Born as a Jew and raised in Jerusalem, she delves into the historical connections between the Jewish community and China, the current state of Jewish life in the country, and the rich cultural and religious ties between Israel and China. Baer also highlights the importance of education, tradition, and modernity in Israeli society and expresses her hopes for future cultural and religious exchanges between the two nations.
China Christian Daily: Since you took office as the consul general in Shanghai in January 2023, what impressions do you have of Shanghai and China?
Ravit Baer: During my entire career as a diplomat over the past few years, I mainly served in places like Ivory Coast, Cyprus, or San Francisco and dealt heavily with the European Union. However, this is my first experience with China. China is incredibly developed. It's incredible to see how fast things are developing here, such as the construction of infrastructure, scientific development, and economic growth. It's quite unique, as I'm used to Western bureaucracy, where things tend to take a little longer.
China Christian Daily: Shanghai and Israel have had many historical connections, the most famous being the Shanghai Jewish Refugees Museum, which tells the story of the Jewish community living alongside local Shanghai residents during World War II. What are your comments on this period of history?
Ravit Baer: It is important to say that there is a difference between the relations between China and the Jewish people and those between China and Israel. Historically, Jewish presence in China started hundreds of years ago, with prominent groups including Jews who came from Russia to Harbin and those who arrived from Iraq into Shanghai. There is a story of Jews who fled the Holocaust in Europe during the early 1940s of World War II. The only refuge place they could find in the world was Shanghai. About 20,000 Jews from Austria, Germany, and other European countries fled Europe from the Nazis, who murdered over a third of the Jewish people, namely six million. But 20,000 of them managed to escape. They came here to Shanghai, where they inhabited the region of Hongkou, survived here, and had interesting relations with their Chinese neighbors.
I would recommend anyone interested in that story to visit the museum that tells the story. Located in Hongkou District, the museum for Jewish refugees in Shanghai was an endeavor that was done by the Shanghai municipality. When you're there, try to explore the history of relations between China and Israel. As Israel was established in 1948, many of the refugees that came to Shanghai ended up in Israel, and some went to the U.S. There are quite a few second and third generations of these refugees in Israel.
But the actual relations between China and Israel all started with the very establishment of the state of Israel and modern China. In 1949, Israel was one of the first countries to recognize China. Diplomatic relations were established in 1992, and the consulate in Shanghai was opened in 1994. This year, we are celebrating 30 years since the establishment of the Consulate General of Israel in Shanghai. Over the last 30 years in Shanghai, many developments have occurred in relations between Israel and China. Many Chinese experts went to Israel to study medicine and agriculture. Since we had an advantage in technological capabilities, we were always happy to share them with China.
China Christian Daily: Can you introduce the situation of Jews in China? As far as we are concerned, there is the Ohel Rachel Synagogue (Seymour Synagogue) in Shanghai. Can you describe the gatherings of Jews at the synagogue in China? Are there any other open synagogues in other parts of China?
Ravit Baer: The Jewish population in China today is very small. I cannot say we have a community, but there are a few Jewish centers in Shanghai where one can celebrate Jewish life and holidays. You can also follow Jewish traditions, such as circumcision, which is the procedure that we do on a baby male on the eighth day to mark him joining the Jewish people. You can do bar (bat) mitzvah, which is also a ceremony that is at the age of 13 for boys and at the age of 12 for girls that marks their entering the mature life. Anything that has to do with the Jewish life cycle can also be done in those Jewish centers, and they also have a school for Hebrew and Jewish life.
I would estimate there are a few thousand people who identify as Jewish, living here for various reasons, such as marriage, work, or study, but they're kind of scattered because they come from different nationalities and they do have joint religions.
There are two historical synagogues in Shanghai, one within the Jewish Refugees Museum. I don't think it functions as a synagogue today, but it still holds the characteristics of a synagogue. The second one is the Ohel Rachel Synagogue, built in the 1920s by the Jews who came here from Iraq. It’s a gorgeous building. Unfortunately, it is not used regularly for Jewish life but only celebrates major holidays because it needs renovation. We have tried to look into options for possible renovations, and it is owned by the Shanghai government, so it's their responsibility. We hope that one day it will function as a full-time synagogue, giving service all year round. Besides that, I think there is a synagogue in Harbin.
China Christian Daily: Can you give a brief introduction to the religion and culture of Israel? As Christianity originated from Judaism, what is the current number of Christians in Israel, and what is their life like?
Ravit Baer: Religion is the center of Israel, such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Historically, it always drew attention to it, way before the state of Israel was established. For Jews, this is the Holy Land where Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob established our Jewish faith and also the promised land for the Jewish people, the chosen people.
This is also the Holy Land, where Christianity began, where Jesus lived, was born, walked on the Sea of Galilee, etc. He was born in Nazareth and passed away in Jerusalem. So there are a lot of relics that are connected to Christian life and a multitude of churches in Israel. In the 19th century, every major superpower in the world built a church in Jerusalem or elsewhere. I was born and raised in Jerusalem, and I know that everywhere you go, you can find a Russian, Catholic, or British Anglican church. The variety of Christian life there is also pretty astounding because it's not just one denomination.
According to the National Bureau of Statistics, there are 185,000 Christians in Israel, about 75% of whom are Arab by ethnic origin. It accounts for a little less than 2% of the population. They are well-educated, more women than men, well-integrated into society, and have good relations with the rest of society and the government. All in all, I think Christian life is flourishing in Israel under complete freedom of worship and freedom of religion. It is important for us, specifically as the Jewish people, that our freedom of religion in our country is for any denomination and anyone interested, since we've been prosecuted for thousands of years because of our religion.
China Christian Daily: How many Chinese people live in Israel, and what is their life like?
Ravit Baer: We don't have an actual number due to our limited immigration laws, but there are small Chinese communities that often have married Israeli citizens. Chinese students also study in Israel, and some of them have remained for many years. There is also quite a large number of workers who came from China and resided in Israel for limited periods—five years or so. They work mostly in the construction field in Israel. They are probably the largest Chinese groups in Israel. They have their community and life, but they are not intended to stay in Israel, only for a limited time.
China Christian Daily: Israel places great importance on culture and tourism. Many Chinese Christians have undertaken pilgrimages to the Holy Land. What do you hope these Christian tourists gain from their visits? Does Israel have any specific programs or policies related to this?
Ravit Baer: We have the most important sites for Christianity in Israel, like the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Church of Annunciation in Nazareth. About 50% of all tourists to Israel are Christians, and about 15% come specifically for pilgrimages. Christian visitors have a strong emotional experience witnessing the places where the New Testament happened. As someone who grew up in Israel, specifically in Jerusalem, I'm used to seeing pilgrims all over. There is also a very strong Christian presence in Israel. Everywhere you go, you will see monasteries, churches, and missions.
In that sense, the Ministry of Tourism and the government on its own have programs to facilitate and support infrastructure for Christian tourism. We have a very established tourism infrastructure for Christian tourists. We participate in international fairs that are related to that. Since October 7, Israel has been entangled in a war. It is heartwarming and encouraging that many Christian communities around the world have been incredibly supportive in our fight for our quiet existence. We have seen many Christian groups coming for solidarity visits in Israel, historically supporting and enhancing those relations between the Jewish religion and the Christian religion. For many years, Christians and Jews have not gotten along well. We have a historical phenomenon of being prosecuted by Christianity, and today what we're seeing is something different. We're seeing friendship and comradeship between the two religions. I do hope we'll have peaceful days coming, and when they do, we'll be happy to see Christian visitors to Israel from anywhere in the world, and definitely from China.
China Christian Daily: Israel emphasizes tradition and also religion, but it is a modern society. How can you maintain the balance between tradition and modernity?
Ravit Baer: Judaism has always been about education as a religion. One of the most basic calls in the faith is to learn and to teach your children. Ultra-orthodox Jews put their kids at school at the age of three. This is why, historically, Jews have been successful in education, business, and anything that requires knowledge and education.
The Zionist movement, which started at the end of the 19th century, looked at how we take our values as Jews. Theodore Herzl, a Jewish journalist from Austria, was the person who worked to create a country for the Jews. He wrote a book about how this country is going to look and created this balance between Jewish life, which is more traditional and conservative, and a modern country with modern values. In reality, when Jews immigrated to Israel, they came with a lot of motivation to create the best country, something advanced and progressive. For example, my older brother is an orthodox Jew who keeps Shabbat. He doesn't turn on the light over the weekend, but on the other hand, he is an electronics engineer developing the most advanced semiconductors.
Personally speaking, I don't look at modernity and secularism as something negative. As a Jewish person, my Jewish heritage and background are extremely important to me. I teach my kids Hebrew, we mark all the Jewish holidays and celebrate the Jewish life cycle. My son was circumcised, and both my kids had bar mitzvah and bat mitzvah. I lived in San Francisco for four years, but we did not have a Christmas tree because of Judaism, while everyone else did. On the other hand, I also believe in freedom. It's always important for me to find the balance between being a Jew and making sure that my kids understand that they are Jewish and to pass it along to their kids, but on the other hand, being free and not confined by strict rules brings Judaism to the 21st century.
China Christian Daily: You said that Judaism pays special attention to education. Israel is also known for its technology and culture. What do you think the world can learn from your country?
Ravit Baer: We've always been a problem-solving country because we didn't have a choice. Since its establishment, Israel has faced wars and a lack of natural resources because it’s mostly desert. They say in the Bible that this is the land of milk and honey, but in reality, it's a dry land, so we had to find solutions. If we didn't have water, we needed to find water solutions, so drip irrigation and desalination processes were invented in Israel.
We knew that we had to invest in higher education and research due to the lack of natural resources. Our real natural resources are our minds and our human resources. We always had to find a solution to a problem. Those solutions often became cutting-edge technologies, for example, the idea of portable memory was invented in Israel to solve the actual problem of transferring information from one computer to another. The idea of a navigation system was also invented because GPS does not tell us the locations of traffic jams, and now it’s owned by Google.
China Christian Daily: What are your expectations for future cultural and religious exchanges between Israel and China?
Ravit Baer: During the past 30 years, we have had wonderful exchanges in the fields of academic cooperation and cultural exchange. There were so many performances that came to China and Israel, and we had wonderful relations. We have many sister city exchanges, for example, Shanghai and the city of Haifa, in the northern part of Israel, and Changzhou and the city of Netanya. Historically, we share many similarities between the Jewish people and the Chinese people, being family-oriented people with 3,000 years of history and an emphasis on education and family ties. I think that brings us together as people. While the Chinese people are 1.4 billion people, the entire Jewish population of the world is around 15 million people, and in Israel, less than eight million Jews. So this is the huge difference between the two sides.
But now we need to wait a little for quieter days and more peaceful days. However, I do think the potential is huge. Things had been difficult because during COVID-19, there was no tourism, but just in the year since I came here in January 2023, we have seen so much interest in visits and cooperation between January and September and so many cultural activities happening. So I hope that we'll be able to see a lot of Chinese tourism coming through Israel. I think Israel also offers a lot as far as entertainment, culture, weather, scenery, and archaeological findings.
As far as culture is concerned, I think we love one another's culture. We were supposed to have here a few theaters from Israel, including the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra. There were so many things that were on the pipe that unfortunately did not happen, but I think they will happen. There is appreciation and interest in what Israel has to offer: classical music, modern dance, world music, jazz, and so on. There is interest and curiosity in Israel about Chinese culture. We are always interested in seeing culture coming from China, whether it is plastic art, relics, or craft, but also modern artists and musicians. We have a very good basis for collaboration, and I hope we can renew it sooner rather than later.
As for religious exchanges, they happen naturally without the involvement of the State of Israel. It is important to create an atmosphere and an infrastructure for religious life. Therefore, we support religious institutions to make sure that they feel comfortable and free to cooperate with whomever they want and to host them.
China Christian Daily: Do you have any words for Chinese Christians?
Ravit Baer: You are all invited to visit the Holy Land to see where your history and our history start and continue. I hope we'll be able to create this connection between people and enhance it in the future. I want to thank anyone who has been supportive of us in the last eight months. Throughout the history of the state of Israel, this connection has been a mark of a better future.
View the interview video here
Interview With Ravit Baer, Consul General of Israel in Shanghai: Jewish-Christian Connections and Cultural Exchange Between Israel and China
