Editor’s note: Speaking of worship and praise, it is a very familiar topic to Christians. In the past ten years, many brand-new worship and praise groups have sprung up in the Chinese world, such as the overseas music ministries Stream Of Praise, Clay Music, and Joshua Band, all of which have their own characteristics. Their creation and interpretation of sacred music is more in line with the inner characteristics of young people in this era. Through worship and praise, more and more people are helped to establish a close connection with God, leading them into the depth of worshiping God.
Christian Times, an online Chinese Christian newspaper, invited Nai Yaguang, a Chinese music producer, to have an interview on which themes of “How to Understand Worship and Praise”. Brother Nai, a Generation Y from Kaifeng, Henan Province, is a father of two. He has been engaged in music ministry for 14 years and trained many church workers who worship and serve many churches. Now, he is also leading a Christian music production team and herding the members in the worship group.
Christian Times: How did you come into contact with the mission of worship and praise? Tell me about your spiritual pilgrimage.
Nai Yaguang: Many years ago, when I was studying theology, I once heard the worship songs by the Stream of Praise in a video shop. At that time, it touched me a lot, and I thought to myself, “Oh! It turns out that you can praise like this, and you can express your love for God like this!” As I used to sing traditional hymns and Canaan hymns anthologies, their tunes seem a little old-fashioned to me. I have studied music since I was a child. Before my father became a pastor, he was a school music teacher. He had a great influence on my study of music.
When I was young, I had no idea about the meaning of worship and praise. I even thought that praise was to fill the gap before sermons. Later, however, I found that music worship with anointing can touch people, heal them, give them peace, and help them enter the presence of God quicker.
My father has experienced many difficulties in ministry, so every time he listens to Xiaomin’s hymns (Xiaomin, a Chinese rural hymn composer, translator’s note), he will burst into tears because such hymns conform to the experience, needs and resonance of people of that era. However, contemporary young people experience loneliness, powerlessness, and fear of society. I think today’s gospel hymn composition should consider the current situation. Thanks to God, my team also has many hymn creation and some piano pieces, hoping to bless more people.
For the development of music worship, what we are doing now is just a precipitation process. Many foreign worshipers are indeed blessed, and we are still learning to imitate them so we can learn more from their melodies.
In terms of lyrics, because of our different cultures, we can’t understand the relationship between Jews and God in this particular cultural situation unless we know their cultural background. Our intimate relationship with God is also influenced by the specific cultural background. Of course, Chinese hymns is extensive and profound, and there are many things that we need to explore how to better combine worship. We need to find a balance in the creation of lyrics.
Christian Times: Some pastors think that the modern version of hymns, though nice and mainly comforting, does not lead people into the pursuit of repentance, salvation and holiness of Jesus. Instead, it is more inclined to personal healing and lacks depth. What do you think of this view?
Nai Yaguang: The development of Chinese popular music, in fact, is very short. We traditionally have Beijing Opera, Henan Opera, Cantonese Opera, etc., and the roles and categories in it will be particularly fine. As far as the sacred music of the church is concerned, it has not developed for a long time in China. In the past, translated hymns were sung. Church music used to drive the development of popular music, but nowadays church music is out of touch with the society.
As for the pastors’ point of view, I can understand them. The lyrics I created have caused controversy. Now, when I create them, I will pay more attention to whether I write this song with God’s attributes and Jesus Christ as the center or having myself as the center. Sometimes I also quote scriptures to create hymns. The development of church music in China is very short, and there is no special classification. For example, gospel hymns, excitement, worship, healing, pure music, and so on. Because there are so few creative people in China, more people should be raised to be create. I am also preparing a tutorial on minimalist creation, hoping to do my part. There are too many people abroad who can do different types of hymns. So there will be a lot of high-quality works coming up.
Christian Times: What do you think of the phenomenon that “some people have been in church for a long time, but they don’t like to praise”?
Nai Yaguang: I think it is necessary not only to have holy hymns but also to have all-around skills to touch people’s hearts. Most church music is difficult to master at present, and it needs to be greatly improved in musical literacy and technology. The church can’t be personalized. You can’t just take the lead to worship if you have the heart. In fact, you need to take into account the feelings of others.
When you pick up the microphone and the musical instrument, you assume a very important role, that is, the ‘priest’ that leads everyone to meet God. If you don’t practice carefully, you will go out of tune and play inaccurate rhythm. It will be difficult for those who come to the church to find God to get grace and be with Him, which will also be the loss of the church. When a person has a good relationship with God, they can actually enter His presence in any way, but when they are in a bad state, it may not be so easy. This requires a good environment, hymns with holiness, penetrating voice, a whole band, a sound system, and lights with atmosphere, etc., to help them enter the worshiping mode.
Christian Times: What do you think of the better development of Chinese local music worship?
Nai Yaguang: I think it will take two generations for Chinese worship to really rise. The young people born after 2000 will have a better music environment, and their education level is getting higher and higher, so they need to be the next generation to be raised to create. We can combine the word of God in the Bible with the characteristics of the times to create a new wave of praise hymns.
Worship can be seen separately: one is the worship of music, and the other is the worship of soul and honesty. The first kind of musical worship focuses on music and leads people to God through the medium of music. Secondly, spiritual and honest worship can be without music, and if you aim at Him, you are already worshiping. Worship with music requires professionalism and rigor.
Let’s refer to David again. Why do we say that the restoration of David’s tabernacle means that we will have to pay a great price. David paid for himself and hired twelve shifts of singing and playing the piano to worship. Now, does the church have this person who spends money to train professionals to take a full-time lead in praise and worship?
Christian Times: What do you think is the essence of worship and praise?
Nai Yaguang: Spirit and truth! Jesus said worship with spirit and truth.
In my opinion, sermon and music worship are both media that lead us to meet God. We all need to worship with our spirit and truth. If the leader doesn’t have the heart and honesty, then the follower can’t aim at God. After Israel was divided into the north and the south, Rehoboam built a golden calf in Samaria to control the Israelites not to go to Jerusalem, but to come to him. This is not leading worship. If everyone worships with spirit and truth, everyone can meet God.
- Translated by Charlie Li
编者按：说到敬拜赞美，对于基督徒而言并不陌生。在过去的十几年里，中国本土涌现出许多崭新的敬拜赞美的团队，如赞美之泉、泥土音乐、约书亚敬拜，他们也都各具特色，对圣乐创作和演绎更加符合这个时代年青人内心的特质，透过敬拜赞美帮助越来越多的人建立与上帝之间亲密的连接，引领他们进入到敬拜上帝的水深之处。
近来，基督时报同工邀请了奈亚光弟兄一同对“如何认识敬拜赞美”的主题进行了交流和分享。奈亚光弟兄，河南开封人，80后的他已经是两个孩子的父亲，从事音乐事工14年，为许多教会培养了很多敬拜事奉的同工。现在他也在带领一个主内音乐制作团队，同时也牧养敬拜团里的同工。
基督时报：你是如何接触到敬拜赞美这一事工呢？ 讲讲你的心路历程。
奈亚光：好多年前在我读神学的时候，有一次就是在一个影像店我听到了《赞美之泉》的诗歌。当时对我的触动是蛮大的，我心里想：“哦！原来还可以这样赞美，可以这样来表达对上帝的爱啊！” 因为，我之前都是唱传统的红皮赞美诗和迦南诗选等，这些诗歌对于我来说，会觉得有些老旧的。我是从小就学习音乐，我爸做牧师之前是学校音乐老师，他对我学习音乐的影响很大。
小的时候，我对敬拜赞美的意义是没有概念的，我甚至以为赞美就是为了填补讲道前时间的空缺。但是后来，我发现有恩膏的音乐敬拜可以让人的心得到感动，让人心得到医治和心灵的平安，帮助人更快速的进入到与神的同在中.
我爸爸曾经历过很多服事的艰难，所以他每次听小敏的诗歌就会泪流满面，因为这类的诗歌符合那个时代人的经历、需要与共鸣。而当代年轻人经历的是关系上的孤独感、无力感和对社会的恐惧感等，我想现在的福音诗歌应该思考如何根据当今的现况来创作，感恩上帝我带的团队也有很多的诗歌创作，还有一些钢琴的灵修音乐，希望能祝福到更多人。
对于音乐敬拜的发展，我们现在所做的还只是一个沉淀的过程。国外不少的敬拜确实很有恩膏，我们现今还是一个学习模仿的时期，可以更多的借鉴他们的旋律。
歌词方面，由于我们文化不同，我们在这个特定的文化光景中，无法了解犹太人跟上帝的关系，除非你知道他们的文化背景。我们跟神敬拜的亲密关系，也是受特定的文化背景的影响，当然中国的诗词博大精深，有太多需要我们探索如何与敬拜有更好的结合，需要在创作歌词上找到一个平衡。
基督时报：有的牧者认为，现代版的诗歌虽然好听，以安慰人心为主，但却没有把人带入到追求悔改、耶稣的救恩和圣洁的里面，反而更多倾向于个人的疗愈，没有深度。你怎么看这种观点呢？
奈亚光：中国通俗音乐的一个发展，其实它的时间段很短的，我们传统上有京剧、豫剧、粤剧等等，而且里面的角色与类别还会分的特别精细。到了教会的圣乐而言，在中国本土的发展更没有多长时间，过去都是唱翻译过来的诗歌。过去教会音乐是带动社会音乐的发展，但是实际上现今教会的音乐和社会的音乐是脱节的。
那对于这位牧师的观点，我也能理解他的观点，我创作的歌词也有过引起争议的时候，现在创作的时候就会比较注意，是不是以上帝的属性和耶稣基督为中心来写这首歌，还是以自我为中心创作。有时我也会引用一些经文来创作诗歌。中国教会音乐发展很短，没有特别的分类。 比如：福音诗歌类、奋兴类、敬拜类、治愈类、纯音乐类等等。因为中国可以创作的人太少了，需要兴起更多人来创作，我目前也在预备极简创作的教程，希望能尽一份力量。国外有太多人可以做不同类型的诗歌。所以不断会有很多优质的作品涌现出来。
基督时报：您怎么看“有的人来教会很久了，但是不喜欢开口赞美”这种现象？
奈亚光：我认为不单需要有恩膏的诗歌，也需要有全备的技巧来触动他的心。大部分的教会音乐目前难以做的很精通，在音乐素养和技术方面需要很大提升。教会不能够人情化，不能只要你有一颗心就可以上台带领敬拜，其实还需要顾及别人的感受。
你拿起麦克风，拿起乐器就是承担了很重要的角色，就是要带领大家遇见神的祭司。如果你没有很用心的练习预备，或者是各种跑调、节奏不准，这样很难会让来教会寻找神的人得到恩典与上帝的同在，这也会成为教会的损失。当人跟上帝的关系好的时候，其实怎样都可以进入神的同在，但状态不好的时候，他/她可能就没有那么容易，这就需要好的环境，有恩膏的诗歌，穿透力的声音，整体的乐队，有震撼的音响系统、有氛围的灯光等来帮助他/她进入敬拜。
基督时报：您如何看中国本土音乐敬拜该如何更好的发展呢？
奈亚光：我认为，中国敬拜真正起来还需要两代人。现今00后的年轻人他们会有比较好的音乐环境，所经历的教育水平也越来越高，所以需要兴起下一代人的创作。我们可以根据圣经神的话与时代特质结合，创作出新一轮的赞美诗歌浪潮。
敬拜可以分开来看：一种是音乐的敬拜，一种是心灵和诚实的敬拜。第一种音乐的敬拜是以音乐为重，借着音乐的媒介带领人对准神。而第二种，心灵和诚实的敬拜是可以没有音乐的，对准祂就已经是在敬拜了。 用音乐敬拜需要有专业度，要严谨才行。
我们再看看大卫，为什么说恢复大卫的帐幕，那意味着我们需要付上的代价会很大。大卫自己掏腰包、雇佣唱诗、弹琴的十二个班次来敬拜。现在教会有没有这个看见来花钱培养出专业的人带专职领赞美和敬拜？
基督时报：您觉得敬拜赞美的本质是什么呢？
奈亚光：心灵和诚实吧！耶稣说敬拜就是用心灵和诚实。
我认为，讲道和音乐敬拜都是引导我们遇见上帝的媒介，我们都需要带着心灵和诚实的心敬拜。如果带领的人没有存着心灵和诚实，那么跟从的人也无法对准上帝。以色列南北分国以后，罗波安在撒马利亚建了金牛犊，来控制以色列人不要去耶路撒冷，而是控制人到他的面前，这不是带领敬拜。如果每个人都存着心灵和诚实的心来敬拜，都是可以遇见上帝的。
专访｜一主内音乐制作人：中国本土音乐敬拜如何更好发展敬拜赞美的本质？
Editor’s note: Speaking of worship and praise, it is a very familiar topic to Christians. In the past ten years, many brand-new worship and praise groups have sprung up in the Chinese world, such as the overseas music ministries Stream Of Praise, Clay Music, and Joshua Band, all of which have their own characteristics. Their creation and interpretation of sacred music is more in line with the inner characteristics of young people in this era. Through worship and praise, more and more people are helped to establish a close connection with God, leading them into the depth of worshiping God.
Christian Times, an online Chinese Christian newspaper, invited Nai Yaguang, a Chinese music producer, to have an interview on which themes of “How to Understand Worship and Praise”. Brother Nai, a Generation Y from Kaifeng, Henan Province, is a father of two. He has been engaged in music ministry for 14 years and trained many church workers who worship and serve many churches. Now, he is also leading a Christian music production team and herding the members in the worship group.
Christian Times: How did you come into contact with the mission of worship and praise? Tell me about your spiritual pilgrimage.
Nai Yaguang: Many years ago, when I was studying theology, I once heard the worship songs by the Stream of Praise in a video shop. At that time, it touched me a lot, and I thought to myself, “Oh! It turns out that you can praise like this, and you can express your love for God like this!” As I used to sing traditional hymns and Canaan hymns anthologies, their tunes seem a little old-fashioned to me. I have studied music since I was a child. Before my father became a pastor, he was a school music teacher. He had a great influence on my study of music.
When I was young, I had no idea about the meaning of worship and praise. I even thought that praise was to fill the gap before sermons. Later, however, I found that music worship with anointing can touch people, heal them, give them peace, and help them enter the presence of God quicker.
My father has experienced many difficulties in ministry, so every time he listens to Xiaomin’s hymns (Xiaomin, a Chinese rural hymn composer, translator’s note), he will burst into tears because such hymns conform to the experience, needs and resonance of people of that era. However, contemporary young people experience loneliness, powerlessness, and fear of society. I think today’s gospel hymn composition should consider the current situation. Thanks to God, my team also has many hymn creation and some piano pieces, hoping to bless more people.
For the development of music worship, what we are doing now is just a precipitation process. Many foreign worshipers are indeed blessed, and we are still learning to imitate them so we can learn more from their melodies.
In terms of lyrics, because of our different cultures, we can’t understand the relationship between Jews and God in this particular cultural situation unless we know their cultural background. Our intimate relationship with God is also influenced by the specific cultural background. Of course, Chinese hymns is extensive and profound, and there are many things that we need to explore how to better combine worship. We need to find a balance in the creation of lyrics.
Christian Times: Some pastors think that the modern version of hymns, though nice and mainly comforting, does not lead people into the pursuit of repentance, salvation and holiness of Jesus. Instead, it is more inclined to personal healing and lacks depth. What do you think of this view?
Nai Yaguang: The development of Chinese popular music, in fact, is very short. We traditionally have Beijing Opera, Henan Opera, Cantonese Opera, etc., and the roles and categories in it will be particularly fine. As far as the sacred music of the church is concerned, it has not developed for a long time in China. In the past, translated hymns were sung. Church music used to drive the development of popular music, but nowadays church music is out of touch with the society.
As for the pastors’ point of view, I can understand them. The lyrics I created have caused controversy. Now, when I create them, I will pay more attention to whether I write this song with God’s attributes and Jesus Christ as the center or having myself as the center. Sometimes I also quote scriptures to create hymns. The development of church music in China is very short, and there is no special classification. For example, gospel hymns, excitement, worship, healing, pure music, and so on. Because there are so few creative people in China, more people should be raised to be create. I am also preparing a tutorial on minimalist creation, hoping to do my part. There are too many people abroad who can do different types of hymns. So there will be a lot of high-quality works coming up.
Christian Times: What do you think of the phenomenon that “some people have been in church for a long time, but they don’t like to praise”?
Nai Yaguang: I think it is necessary not only to have holy hymns but also to have all-around skills to touch people’s hearts. Most church music is difficult to master at present, and it needs to be greatly improved in musical literacy and technology. The church can’t be personalized. You can’t just take the lead to worship if you have the heart. In fact, you need to take into account the feelings of others.
When you pick up the microphone and the musical instrument, you assume a very important role, that is, the ‘priest’ that leads everyone to meet God. If you don’t practice carefully, you will go out of tune and play inaccurate rhythm. It will be difficult for those who come to the church to find God to get grace and be with Him, which will also be the loss of the church. When a person has a good relationship with God, they can actually enter His presence in any way, but when they are in a bad state, it may not be so easy. This requires a good environment, hymns with holiness, penetrating voice, a whole band, a sound system, and lights with atmosphere, etc., to help them enter the worshiping mode.
Christian Times: What do you think of the better development of Chinese local music worship?
Nai Yaguang: I think it will take two generations for Chinese worship to really rise. The young people born after 2000 will have a better music environment, and their education level is getting higher and higher, so they need to be the next generation to be raised to create. We can combine the word of God in the Bible with the characteristics of the times to create a new wave of praise hymns.
Worship can be seen separately: one is the worship of music, and the other is the worship of soul and honesty. The first kind of musical worship focuses on music and leads people to God through the medium of music. Secondly, spiritual and honest worship can be without music, and if you aim at Him, you are already worshiping. Worship with music requires professionalism and rigor.
Let’s refer to David again. Why do we say that the restoration of David’s tabernacle means that we will have to pay a great price. David paid for himself and hired twelve shifts of singing and playing the piano to worship. Now, does the church have this person who spends money to train professionals to take a full-time lead in praise and worship?
Christian Times: What do you think is the essence of worship and praise?
Nai Yaguang: Spirit and truth! Jesus said worship with spirit and truth.
In my opinion, sermon and music worship are both media that lead us to meet God. We all need to worship with our spirit and truth. If the leader doesn’t have the heart and honesty, then the follower can’t aim at God. After Israel was divided into the north and the south, Rehoboam built a golden calf in Samaria to control the Israelites not to go to Jerusalem, but to come to him. This is not leading worship. If everyone worships with spirit and truth, everyone can meet God.
- Translated by Charlie Li
Interview: Christian Music Producer Says Chinese Music Worship Can Be Better
