Editor’s note: Originally born in California, the United States, Pastor Dennis Balcombe, the founder of Revival Chinese Ministries International and Revival Christian Church in Hong Kong, felt the calling to China after attending a Spirit-filled church at the age of 16. On a rare vacation occasion in Hong Kong, he came to the place where he would stay for the next two decades to reach the people on the mainland. Like Hudson Taylor and other western missionaries to China, the man "born for China", learns Chinese, lives, and befriends the locals to win them for Christ. In an exclusive interview with China Christian Daily in August, Pastor Balcombe shared his recent insights about churches in China, Pentecostalism, overseas Chinese churches, and the global church.
China Christian Daily: Can you introduce yourself and your ministry?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: I was born in California in 1945 and raised in a traditional Methodist church that did not preach the gospel, but at the age of 16, I attended a Spirit-filled church and received a call from God to become a preacher. I gave my life to God to be a preacher, but I asked God which country I should go to since most of the American people had heard the gospel at that time. I felt the Lord speaking to me and saying that I should go to China. As China had not opened in 1977, I served as a soldier in Vietnam and preached the gospel there. Then I spent the vacation in Hong Kong, which then had a population of four million. A prophet said beside me, “One day the doors to China will open. You must come back and start a church here because you will go to China when it opens.” After receiving such confirmation, I returned to Hong Kong in 1969 and started a church named Revival Christian Church. Praise the Lord that Deng Xiaoping opened China in 1978. We began a ministry of taking Bibles into China because Bibles were destroyed in the Cultural Revolution, then taught about the Holy Spirit across China.
China Christian Daily: As a foreign Christian, you have been living in Hong Kong for more than 50 years. What’s the difference between Chinese Christians and foreign Christians from your perspective?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: There is a difference between Christians in mainland China, especially in rural areas, and those outside China: they have a great love for the Lord and the Holy Bible. If you teach them anything, they want to know if it is in the Bible. In China, there are not many denominations like in the West, but Chinese Christians want to confirm if what Western churches and denominations bring is really the Word of God. If not, they reject it. There are also false cults in China, one of which is called Eastern Lightening or Almighty God, deceiving some believers who don’t check the Bible, but many Christians really honor the word of God.
Another distinction is the prayer life of Chinese Christians. When I went to villages in the late 1980s, I found that every church had a prayer meeting in the morning. There is a famous Chinese song called “Five O’clock in the Morning in China”. Quite often, before 5 a.m., they were on their knees, praying and crying intensely to the Lord.
Third, Chinese Christians have a great desire to share Jesus with other people. Sometimes it is not easy to do this, but they sent people to other villages and even to the minorities to preach the gospel.
China Christian Daily: What are the characteristics of the church in China at present? What challenge does it face? What should it stick to and change?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: Unlike Hong Kong and many Western countries, the churches in mainland China are under the governance of the rules of religion. The government in mainland China wants churches to be registered, and there is a large organization called the Three-Self Patriotic Movement. For historical and doctrinal reasons, many Christians do not desire to go to the official church; they meet at homes, and we call them “home churches.” But people may have misunderstood them as cell groups. Nobody knows the exact number of Chinese Christians, but we estimate that there are 70 to 80 percent of Christians in China meet at home churches.
Because of the regulations of religion, I encourage them to register, if possible, to have a good relationship with the government. Since China varies in different areas, it is not easy to register in some parts. My suggestion would be that they should do their best to register and obey the law, depending on their relationship with the authorities. But no matter what, they should meet together and divide the congregations into other areas to evangelize people. I’m optimistic that China will have more freedom over the years, and that Christianity will be a great contribution to the people of China.
China Chrisitan Daily: There are many Pentecostal churches in mainland China. What have been their changes over the past decade? The church in China has seen the revival of Pentecostalism and the rise of rational theology. There are many problems with some Pentecostal churches. How should the church in China treat Pentecostalism to avoid the unnecessary winding course?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: Also called the Charismatic Movement, Pentecostalism believes that Christians can be baptized by the Holy Spirit. Most Pentecostal churches believe that speaking in tongues is a sign of being filled with the Spirit. Chinese Christians would rise early in the morning and pray for one or two hours in the Spirit. Praying in the Spirit includes interceding for other people, which contributes to church growth. The vast majority of Protestant Christians and even some Catholics in China are filled with the Spirit or at least open to this. There is a great move in God’s work across the world, as there are 700–800 million Charismatic or Pentecostal Christians among about one billion Protestants.
But there are also problems, such as giving false prophecies or getting money from others. Coming from extreme or heretical sects, they came to China after the country opened up. For example, they emphasize spiritual warfare that focuses on principalities in the air, but we believe true welfare is preaching the gospel, healing the sick, and casting out demons. We have not been given authority from those principalities, but we have the authority to preach the gospel, heal the sick, and cast out demons. As more people believe in Jesus, the principalities and the powers of the air will lose their influence.
Unfortunately, many evangelicals have rejected the whole Pentecostal movement because of those extremes. For example, Hong Kong has the United Pentecostal Church, which only baptizes people in the name of Jesus and claims that people can only be baptized in their church to be saved and must speak in tongues. There is a similar church on the mainland named True Jesus Church, which rejects the doctrine of the Trinity and meets on the Sabbath. The same problem is that “we are the only true church.” So one of my main ministries is teaching the Word of God and good, solid evangelical doctrine.
Personally speaking, the greatest problem with Christianity in China is not persecution at all, because persecution unites us through more prayer and helps us grow. The problem is the teaching against the Holy Spirit or Reformed theology in an extreme form of Calvinism. Calvin was a great teacher, but people took his great book, the Institute of the Christian Religion, to an extreme, which caused many problems in China. People overestimated the predestination of the TULIP doctrine and claimed, “Once saved, always saved.”
Besides, cessation believes that all the gifts of the Holy Spirit cease until the last apostle John died. Also, a group called Hyper Grace teaches people that if they believe in Jesus, they don’t need to repent of their sins or live a holy life, since all their past, present, and future sins are forgiven. The hyper-prosperity gospel basically refers to the idea that the more you give to the preacher, the more money God will give back to you.
Those things from the West identified with the Pentecostal or Charismatic churches are not truly Pentecostal because Pentecostalism is about the Holy Spirit, the spirit of truth.
China Christian Daily: You used to train Christians in mainland China. Their needs have been changing over the past decades. What do you think Chinese Christians need from the world?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: There has been a tremendous change in China since the opening up in the late 1970s and 1980s. During that period, most people lived in an agrarian society, working on farms in rural areas, but now, the majority of them moved to cities. In the city, one must have a skill and work hard, and young people must receive education to get jobs, which have tremendously influenced urban Christians in general. Over the past decades, Christians in cities have become more materialistic than before. Satisfied with their simple life without many conveniences, rural Christians only wanted to live for Jesus and lead as many people as possible to Christ; everyone was a missionary. I noticed that once they became grounded in cities and got more education and jobs, they became very materialistic. The prosperity gospel was also coming to China, claiming that “God will bless you” rather than “you bless other people” and “serving the Lord”.
The answer to this challenge is that people should be truly baptized by the Holy Spirit and be filled with the Spirit. Acts 1:8 says that when the Spirit comes upon you, you receive power that pushes you forward to the Lord’s witness in Jerusalem, Samaria, Judea, and to the ends of the earth. Basically speaking, we need a revival in the church because the global church is becoming so materialistic in a way that people have more love for the things of the world: getting married to have a family, a house, and a vehicle. Jesus even warned of the dangers of materialism in the Bible: Be cautious of greed and cravings, the love of the world. My burden is to go back to the gospel, preach Jesus, and talk about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
China Christian Daily: Today, the largest church in the world still pays close attention to the Chinese church. Since you have been serving the Chinese church for decades, where do you think the Chinese church can make contributions to the global church? What's the significance of the Chinese church for the development of Christianity across the world?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: The Chinese churches can certainly make great contributions to the church worldwide. For example, they can teach us prayer, love for the Bible, and evangelism. Chinese Christians called me “teacher” instead of “pastor” for security reasons, but they were my teachers. They can teach me “practical theology”: how we live the life of a Christian. First of all, take up your cross. They do take up their crosses in China and remain faithful to the Lord, particularly in the face of persecution.
They are also enormously contributing to the fulfillment of the Great Commission. Many Chinese Christians have migrated overseas and attended international conferences. Our revival church in Paris has around 800 members, most of whom are from Wenzhou. While we call the Chinese the Jews of the Orient, Wenzhou people are the Jews of the Chinese. Usually involved in business, many Wenzhou people are part of the “Back to Jerusalem” vision. Chinese Christians are engaged in evangelism, scattering around the world, such as in Europe, Singapore, Indonesia, Bangladesh, and Pakistan. In the last few days, God has raised Christians in Asia, including China, Korea, Indonesia, and even India, and almost every Asian country has seen church growth. Around the world, the Chinese are the most responsive people to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
China Christian Daily: The vast majority of missionaries in Hong Kong have never learned the language well enough to preach in it and have very little understanding of or appreciation of the Chinese culture. Why is it that you and a small number of missionaries will totally bond with the people in language and culture and plant churches among the Chinese?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: There is a missionary principle of bonding. The book Bonding and the Missionary Task by the late E. Thomas Brewster basically claims that when any foreign missionary goes to another nation, he should bond with the local people. When I came to Hong Kong, I did not have much money and could only speak a little Cantonese. The local people invited me to their house, and I became friends with them. I was told to learn Cantonese at a university and where to rent a cheap apartment. I bonded with the Chinese, which was what Hudson Taylor and the China Inland Mission did—they bonded with the Chinese so much that they looked like the Chinese. They dressed like the Chinese, learned the language, and lived with the rural people.
But over the years, I found that the vast majority of missionaries in Hong Kong did not bond with the people. They never learned the language or understood the Chinese culture. The best way to learn a new language is to live with the locals instead of attending language classes. Missionaries are like Jesus, and the word should become flesh. In my situation, I was determined to become Chinese. It took me seven months to learn Cantonese, and it took my wife, who was born in Thailand, one year to acquire Cantonese. We speak Cantonese at home with our children. When I came to Hong Kong, I determined that it was my calling place for a lifetime. Some missionaries are always saying, “It’s so hard to understand Chinese” and “Why do the people do this?” As a result, many of them are unable to minister to the Chinese and without great love for them; they only minister to people who speak their language. Maybe they will invite interpreters to translate their preaching into the local language, but it was not the same as the CIM missionaries. We need to go back to what the mission is about: go to the nations, become one with the people you were called to, and learn the language and culture to reach the people of those nations.
China Christian Daily: You have been traveling to different countries over the years. Share with us what you have seen there, especially about those overseas Chinese churches. Do they share similarities with those in China?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: I have traveled to most nations in the world. Since our ministry provides Bibles for Christians in China, quite often, I’m invited to speak about China and the mission.
There is a great need for missionaries for the Chinese people, who constitute 17.5% of the global population. Chinese has been spoken as the most common mother tongue across the globe, but Christians in China may only make up seven to eight percent of the country’s population, meaning that most people have not been reached.
It’s not easy for foreigners to travel to China, but there are many ways to do missionary work. Our ministry provides Bibles that are legally obtained from Amity Printing Press for evangelism, as well as an online Bible teaching school for different Christians in China. We encourage the overseas people to reach the Chinese in their communities. Every major city around the world, such as London and New York, has tens of thousands of Chinese, many of whom are non-Christians. There are Chinese churches there, but many do not have a burden for reaching the people in mainland China, though they have friends and relatives there, nor do they provide financial aid and training resources for Christians in China. Sadly, many of them don’t pay attention to the real situation of the unsaved Chinese people living in China. The opposite is that many Western churches pray for China with great passion that Chinese will be saved, but it is more difficult for Western Christians to do any ministry in China.
One reason is that most overseas Chinese churches in North America and Europe, though they are evangelical in doctrine, they are not open to the Holy Spirit. They do believe in the Bible, but they don’t preach about the work of the Holy Spirit. Most of the church members are well-educated professionals, but they don’t reach Chinese working in restaurants, petrol stations, laundry shops, or even those sleeping on the streets in their community. The less-educated, poor Chinese may also not want to go to these kinds of churches.
One of our great challenges is to encourage overseas Chinese churches to have a passion for reaching other Chinese in their communities. Being truly evangelical means preaching the gospel. They should consider China for they can easily come here to speak with people, offer disaster relief, and help poor people and orphans.
China Christian Daily: After your more-than-40-year ministry for China, many native leaders have risen up, so what is your role now? What do you expect from those leaders and Chinese churches?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: There is an English saying: “Pass on the baton.” (薪火相传) It means that I give you the firewood and the fire so that you can carry on in this relay race, which started from the time of Jesus to the Pentecost until now. The current challenge is to give the vision, the anointing, and the tools of training to the young leaders who have the greatest influences. The church across the world is becoming old; in other words, you don’t see many young people. Due to education systems, churches’ policies about LGBTQ+ and abortions, and their opinions about evolution and creationism in Europe, many young people don’t attend church after graduation.
But thank God that there is a revival in young people. We have a Spirit-filled group of Christian artists in Hong Kong who are singing and producing videos and movies. We often have youth rallies where young people from many different churches are engaged in singing, worshiping, repenting, and being commissioned to preach the gospel together for several days.
My pastor told me not to continue to the role of the senior pastor beyond the age of 60. He gave his church to his son at 60, and I gave my church to my daughter and son-in-law at 59. Now they are planning to give it over to the young generation. We need to train young leaders and release them—let them lead the song service, and preach on Sundays, take part in administration, and especially take them on mission trips to other nations. We have had a ministry named “Donkeys for Jesus” for years, which brings the Bibles to China. Young people from the West, Southeast Asia, Taiwan, and even China participate in mission teams to deliver the Bibles to China. Because of this experience, many of them want to be missionaries in China and return to study in language schools on the mainland or in Hong Kong.
China Christian Daily: Do you have any words for the Chinese Church and Christians?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: I believe the Lord has chosen the Chinese Church to take the gospel to nations and back to Jerusalem. Christianity began in Jerusalem and Antioch, where Paul and Barnabas planted a church in Asia Minor (today’s Turkey), and churches in the East grew to seven, as recorded in the book of Revelation, and continue to grow. In the book of Acts, Paul had a vision with the man from Macedonia: “Come to Macedonia and help us!” So the gospel went to the West instead of the east. After the Reformation, the gospel continued to prosper in the West, Africa, and the United States. In the late 19th and 20th centuries, the West sent missionaries to China, Korea, Indonesia, the Philippines, etc. Amazingly, the Asian people, who account for two-thirds of the global population, are responsive to the gospel, and the churches here are growing. So today’s mission is to take the gospel to unreached nations, like India, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, and Afghanistan. It appears that the gospel will go back to Jerusalem because, at the very end, the Jews will turn to the Lord and look at Him whom they pierced. This mandate has come to the Chinese Church: your country has good relationships with people in the Third World nations. We need to pray that the doors will continue to open and that the Chinese Church will have this vision to bless the nations of the world.
Watch the interview video episode 1 and episode 2.
编者注：出生于美国加州的包德宁（Dennis Balcombe）牧师是复兴华人国际事工（Revival Chinese Ministries International）及香港复兴基督教会（Revival Christian Church in Hong Kong）的创始人。16岁时，包德宁牧师去到一间圣灵充满的教会，之后有感于呼召去到中国。在一次难得的度假中，为了将来向大陆人民传递福音，他来到香港，将会在接下来二十年岁月里一直久呆。他在1970年代末进入中国大陆，也是改革开放后最早进入中国大陆服侍的人份之一。
他实践近200年前戴德生（Hudson Taylor）当年来中国穿中国衣说中国话的服侍方式，包牧师也相信自己“生而为中国”，他学习中文和华人生活方式，还与当地人交朋友，为基督赢得他们。
今年八月，包德宁在接受China Christian Daily独家采访时分享了近来对中国教会、五旬节派、海外华人教会及全球教会的见解。
China Christian Daily（以下简称CCD）：您可以介绍以下您自己和您的事工吗？
包德宁牧师：1945年，我出生于美国加州，成长于一间并不宣讲福音的传统派卫理会。16岁时，我去到一间圣灵充满的教会，得到上帝要我成为布道家的呼召。于是，我把生命交托给了上帝，成了一名布道家，但我问上帝，我该去到哪个国家呢，因为当时大多数美国人都听闻过福音。我感到上帝在跟我说话，说我应当去到中国。1977年，中国才进行改革开放，而那时我还在越南服役，在那里传讲福音。之后，我赶着假期去了香港，那里当时有400万人口。一位先知在我耳边说：“去往中国的大门终有一日会打开的。你必须回来，在这里建立教会，因为当大门打开时，你就要去到中国了。”获得确信后，我在1969年回到了中国香港，建立了一间教会，取名为“复兴基督教会”。赞美主，邓小平在1978年打开了中国内地的大门。由于圣经在文化大革命中被毁，我们开始了将圣经带到中国内地的事工，然后在中国各地开展圣灵的教导。
CCD：作为一名外国基督徒，您在香港生活了50多年，也多次去过内地。在您看来，中国基督徒与外国基督徒什么不一样的地方呢？
包德宁牧师：中国大陆的基督徒，尤其是农村地区，与外国基督徒存在一个不同之处：他们对主和圣经有着极大的热爱。如果你教导了某件事，他们很想知道其是否存在于圣经中。中国不像西方那样有很多宗派，而且中国基督徒想确认西方教会和宗派带来的是否真的是上帝的话语。如果不是，他们会拒绝接受。中国也有很多虚伪邪教，其中一个叫做“东方闪电”或“全能神”，他们欺骗了部分不查经的信徒，但很多基督徒真的是尊重上帝的话语。
另一个不同点是中国基督徒的祷告生活。二十世纪八十年代，我去到乡村，发现每间教会都在早上进行祷告会。有首著名的中国诗歌叫做《中国早晨的五点钟》。很多时候，他们在早上五点之前就跪在地上，聚精会神地向主祷告和呼求。
第三个是中国基督徒非常渴望向其他人分享耶稣。虽然有时这点并不容易做到，但他们还是差派人员去到其他村落，甚至是少数民族那里传讲福音。
CCD：中国教会目前有哪些特点？现在它面临着怎样的挑战呢？中国教会要持守的是什么，要改变的又是什么？
包德宁牧师：不同于中国香港和很多西方国家，中国大陆的教会受宗教管理条例的束缚。中国大陆政府要求教会必须登记注册，还发起了一间名为“三自爱国运动”的大型组织。出于历史和教义上的原因，很多基督徒并不愿意去到官方教会，而是在家进行聚会，我们称其为“家庭教会”，但很多人可能误以为它们是细胞小组。无人知晓中国基督徒的具体人数，但我们估计中国有70%至80%的基督徒是在家庭教会进行聚会的。
由于宗教管理条例，我鼓励他们在尽可能的情况下登记注册，以便与政府保持良好关系。可由于中国各地的情况都不一样，某些地方进行登记注册并不容易。我的建议是，中国教会应根据自己与当局的关系，尽力登记并遵守法律。无论如何，他们都应当一起进行聚会，还将会众划分到其他地区，好给他人传福音。我乐观以为，中国这些年会有更多自由，基督教也会为中国人民作出巨大贡献来。
CCD：中国大陆有很多五旬节派教会。它们在过去二十年里发生了哪些变化呢？中国教会目睹了五旬节派的复兴和理性神学的兴起。部分五旬节派教会还存在很多问题。中国教会该如何对待五旬节派，好避免走不必要的弯路呢？
包德宁牧师：五旬节派又被称之为灵恩运动，他们认为基督徒可以受圣灵的洗礼。大多数五旬节派教会认为，说方言是圣灵充满的标志。中国基督徒会在清晨早起，在圣灵里祷告一至两个小时。在圣灵里祷告包括为他人代祷，其有助于教会成长。在中国，绝大多数新教基督徒甚至部分天主教徒都被圣灵充满，或者至少对此持开放态度。上帝的工作在全世界有着很大的发展，在约十亿新教徒当中，就有7亿到8亿是灵恩派或五旬节派基督徒。
但问题也随之而来，好比说说假预言或收受他人钱财。这些人来自极端或异端派别，是在改革开放后进入中国的。比如，他们强调定睛天上掌权者的属灵争战，而我们认为，真正的属灵争战乃是传讲福音、医治病弱、赶除恶鬼。我们并没有从那些天上掌权者那里获得权柄，但我们有传讲福音、医治病弱、赶除恶鬼的权柄，随着更多人相信耶稣，那些天上的掌权者和势力的影响就会随之消失。
不幸的是，很多福音派因受这些极端行为的影响而拒绝整个五旬节运动。例如，香港有间联合五旬节教会（United Pentecostal Church），他们仅以耶稣的名义给人施洗，声称人们只能在他们的教会受洗方能得救，而且还必须口说方言。大陆也存在一间类似的教会，其名为“真耶稣教会”（True Jesus Church），他们拒绝三位一体的教导，在安息日进行聚会，有着“我们才是唯一真正的教会”同样问题。因此，我的主要事工之一就是教导上帝的话语和良好、坚实的福音教导。
个人以为，基督教在中国最大的问题根本不是外界的压力，因为压力会让我们通过更多的祷告团结起来，帮助我们成长。问题在于反对圣灵的教导，或是加尔文主义极端形式的改革宗神学。加尔文是一位居功至伟的教师，但人们将他不朽的著作《基督教要义》（Institute of the Christian Religion）推向了极端，在中国造成了很多问题。人们过高估计了郁金香要义中的预定论，称“一次得救，永远得救”。
此外，停止派（Cessation）认为，圣灵所有的恩赐在最后一位使徒约翰去世之后就停止了。还有一个名为“恩典福音”（Hyper Grace）的团体教导人们说，他们如果相信耶稣，就无需悔改或过着圣洁的生活，因为他们过去、现在和未来的所有罪都已得赦免。成功神学（hyper-prosperity）基本就是在论述这么一个理念：给布道家的钱财越多，上帝还给你的钱财就越多。
这些教导来自西方，还被认为是出自五旬节派或灵恩派教会，并非是真正的五旬节派，因为五旬节派是教导圣灵、真理之灵的。
CCD：您过去在中国大陆培训基督徒。过去几十年来，他们的需要一直在变化。您认为中国基督徒需要世界向他们提供什么呢？
包德宁牧师：自20世纪70年代和80年代进行改革开放以来，中国发生了翻天覆地的变化。在那时候，大多数人生活在农业社会，在农村地区的农场进行工作。而现在，大多数人已经搬迁到了城市。城市里面，一个人必须有一技之长并辛苦工作，年轻人必须接受教育才找得到工作，这就给城市基督徒普遍带来的深重影响。过去几十年里，城市基督徒变得比以往更物质化。农村基督徒满足于他们没有太多便利设施的简单生活，他们只想为耶稣而活，带领尽可能多的人到基督那里；每个人都是传教士。我留意到他们一旦在城市扎根，接受更多教育和有了工作，就会迅速变得物质化。成功神学也传到了中国，声称“上帝会祝福你”，而不是“你要祝福其他人”和“服侍主”。
对这一挑战的应答是，人们应当真正受圣灵的洗礼，被圣灵充满。《使徒行传》1章8节说：“圣灵降临在你们身上，你们就必得着能力，并要在耶路撒冷、犹太全地，和撒玛利亚，直到地极，作我的见证”。从根本上说，我们需要教会的复兴，因为全球教会正变得如此物质化，人们更偏爱属世的东西：结婚成家、有房有车。耶稣甚至都在圣经中警告了物质主义的危险：当防备贪婪、贪欲和贪爱世界。我的负担是回到福音，传讲耶稣，论述圣灵的洗礼。
CCD：现如今，大部分世界教会仍旧非常关注中国教会。您服侍了中国教会数十年，认为中国教会有哪些方面可以向全球教会提供贡献？中国教会对全球基督教的发展又有什么意义呢？
包德宁牧师：中国教会自然可以为全球教会作出伟大贡献。比如他们可以教导我们祷告、爱圣经和传福音。出于安全因素，中国基督徒称呼我为“老师”，不称“牧师”，但他们是我的老师。他们可以教导我“实践神学”：我们如何过着基督徒的生活。首先，背负起你的十字架。在中国，他们的确背起了十字架，对主保持忠诚，尤其是在面对迫害之时。
中国教会也为完成大使命了做出了不可胜数的贡献。很多中国基督徒移居海外，参加国际会议。我们在巴黎的复兴教会有约800名成员，其中大部分来自温州。我们称中国人为“东方的犹太人”，温州就是中国人当中的犹太人。温州人通常涉足商业，很多是“回归耶路撒冷”运动的一份子。中国基督徒传福音，散居世界各地，如欧洲、新加坡、印度尼西亚、孟加拉国和巴基斯坦。在最近一段日子里，上帝在亚洲兴起基督徒，包括中国、韩国、印度尼西亚，甚至印度，几乎每个亚洲国家里面的教会都在增长。中国人是世界各地对耶稣基督的福音反应最积极的群体。
CCD：绝大多数在香港的传教士都没学当地语言，无法用中文讲道，而且对中国文化的理解和欣赏也极为有限。您为什么和少数传教士能在语言和文化上与当地人民打成一片，在中国人当中建立起教会呢？
包德宁牧师：有条传教士原则叫做“纽带”（bonding）。已故的托马斯·布瑞斯特（E. Thomas Brewster）在其著作《纽带和传教任务》（Bonding and the Missionary Task）提出，任何外国传教士到另一国进行传教时，都应当与当地人建立纽带关系。我来香港的时候，只带了一点点钱，也只会一点点广东话。当地人邀请我去他们家做客，我便跟他们成了朋友。他们告诉我在一所大学里学习广东话，在哪里可以租到便宜房子。我与他们打成一片，其实就是戴德生和中国内地会所做的事情，他们与中国人一块生活，以至于看起来就像是中国人。他们穿戴像中国人，学习中文，与农村人一块居住。
但很多年后，我发现在香港的绝大多数传教士并没有跟当地人融合。他们从未学习过中文，也不了解中国文化。学习一门新语言最好的方式是与当地人同吃同住，而不是上语言班。传教士就像耶稣，当道成肉身。以我的情况，我决定成为一名中国人。我花了七个月时间学习广东话，我妻子在泰国花了一年时间学会广东话。我们在家和孩子们都说广东话。来香港的时候，我认定这里就是我一生的呼召之地。有些传教士总在说，“中文太难懂了”，“为什么这么做？”结果就是，他们很多人无法对中国人传道，也没有对中国人的爱心；他们只向说着自己语言的人进行传道。可能他们会邀请翻译员将他们的讲道翻作当地语言，但这是与中国内地会的传教士不一样的。我们需要回归何谓宣教：去到万民中，成为你受召去到人群中的一员，学习他们的语言和文化，向这些民族中的人传福音。
CCD：您这些年一直去到不同的国家。请与我们分享您在那里的见闻，尤其是那些海外华人教会。他们与中国教会有什么相似吗？
包德宁牧师：我去到过世界上大多数的国家。由于我们的事工是向中国基督徒提供圣经，所以我经常受邀对中国和传教事宜发表讲话。
中国人占全球人口17.5%，对传教士有着极大的需求。中文已经成为全球最通用的母语，但中国基督徒仅能占中国总人口的7%到8%，这意味着绝大多数人没有听闻过福音。
外国人进入中国不是件易事，但有多种方式来做传教士工作。我们的事工提供圣经用来传福音，圣经是从爱德印刷出版社（Amity Printing Press）合法获得的，同时有一所圣经网校为有不同需求的中国基督徒提供教学。我们鼓励海外人士向所在社区的中国人传福音。世界上每一座大城市，比如伦敦纽约，都有数以万计的中国人，其中很多都是非基督徒。那里也有华人教会，但很多既没有负担向中国大陆的人民传福音，尽管他们在大陆有着亲朋好友，也没有为中国的基督徒提供经济援助和培训资源。可悲的是，他们中很多人并不关心生活在中国的未能得救国人面临的真实处境。形成相反对照的是，很多西方教会满有激情地为中国祷告，希望中国人能得救，但是，西方基督徒真的很难在中国开展任何方面的事工。
其中一个原因是，虽然北美和欧洲的大多数海外华人教会在教导上是福音派，但是对圣灵并不开放。他们相信圣经，但不宣讲圣灵的工作。大多数教会成员都是受过良好教育的专业人士，但他们并不接触身在餐馆、加油站、洗衣店工作的华人，甚至是他们社区中流落街头的人。那些受教育程度较低、贫穷的华人也不太愿意去到这类教会。
我们面临的一大艰巨挑战就是鼓励海外华人教会热情地向社区中其他华人传福音。成为真正的福音派意味着传讲福音。海外华人教会应当顾及中国，因为他们可以很容易地与中国人谈话，提供灾害救济，扶孤济困。
CCD：在为中国服侍了40多年后，很多本土领袖已经起来，那您现在的角色是什么呢？您对这些领袖和中国教会有着如何期待呢？
包德宁牧师：有句英语谚语叫做“薪火相传”（原文Pass on the baton）。它的意思是我交给你木材火把，让你可以在这场从耶稣时代到圣灵降临直至现在的接力赛中继续前进。当前的挑战是如何将异象、恩膏和培训工具提供给具有最大影响力的年轻领袖们。全世界的教会都在老龄化，换句话说，看不到多少年轻人。在欧洲，由于教育体制、教会对LGBTQ+和堕胎的政策、自身对进化论创世论的看法，很多年轻人在学业完成后是不去到教会的。
但感谢上帝，年轻人正在复兴。香港有一群被圣灵充满的基督徒艺术家，他们会唱歌、制作录影和电影。我们经常举办青年聚会，有来自不同教会的年轻人在为期数天的会上唱歌、敬拜、悔改，和接受任命去传福音。
我的牧师告诉过我，说60岁之后就不要继续留任主任牧师。我的牧师在60岁时把他的教会交给了儿子，而我在59岁时把我的教会交给了女儿女婿。现在，他们打算把教会交给年轻一代。我们需要培训年轻领袖，放手他们去做，让他们带领诗班、主日讲道、参与教会管理，以及尤其是带他们去到其他国家作宣教旅行。多年来，我们有一事工叫作“耶稣的小毛驴”（Donkeys for Jesus），就是将圣经带至中国。来自西方、东南亚、台湾，甚至是中国大陆的参与者加入到宣教队，把圣经运送到中国。因为有这样的经历，他们中很多人都想成为中国传教士，回大陆或香港的语言学校进行学习。
CCD：您是否有对中国教会和基督徒想说的话？
包德宁牧师：我相信主拣选了中国教会来将福音传至万民，传回耶路撒冷。基督教起源于耶路撒冷和安提阿，保罗和巴拿巴在小亚细亚（今土耳其）建立教会，而在东方的教会发展成为七间，正如《启示录》记载的那样，他们还在继续发展。在《使徒行传》中，保罗与来自马其顿的一人有一个异象，“请你过到马其顿来帮助我们。”（译注：见《使徒行传》16：9）。于是，福音去到了西方，而不是东方。宗教改革之后，福音继续在西方、非洲和美国发展传播。到了19世纪和20世纪，西方向中国、韩国、印度尼西亚、菲律宾等国差派了传教士。令人惊喜的是，占全球人口三分之二的亚洲人对福音作出了回应，这里的教会还在不断发展壮大。
因此，今天的使命是将福音带至从未听闻过福音的地方，比如：印度、巴基斯坦、阿塞拜疆和阿富汗等。似乎福音将要回到耶稣撒冷，因为在最后关头，犹太人将回心转意归向主，仰望他们钉死过的那位。这一任务已经临到中国教会头上：你们的国家与第三世界国家的人民有着良好关系。我们需要祷告，让大门继续敞开，让中国教会拥有祝福世界万民的异象。
专访| 包德宁牧师：薪火相传，我盼望主耶稣让中国教会拥有祝福世界万民的异象
Editor’s note: Originally born in California, the United States, Pastor Dennis Balcombe, the founder of Revival Chinese Ministries International and Revival Christian Church in Hong Kong, felt the calling to China after attending a Spirit-filled church at the age of 16. On a rare vacation occasion in Hong Kong, he came to the place where he would stay for the next two decades to reach the people on the mainland. Like Hudson Taylor and other western missionaries to China, the man "born for China", learns Chinese, lives, and befriends the locals to win them for Christ. In an exclusive interview with China Christian Daily in August, Pastor Balcombe shared his recent insights about churches in China, Pentecostalism, overseas Chinese churches, and the global church.
China Christian Daily: Can you introduce yourself and your ministry?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: I was born in California in 1945 and raised in a traditional Methodist church that did not preach the gospel, but at the age of 16, I attended a Spirit-filled church and received a call from God to become a preacher. I gave my life to God to be a preacher, but I asked God which country I should go to since most of the American people had heard the gospel at that time. I felt the Lord speaking to me and saying that I should go to China. As China had not opened in 1977, I served as a soldier in Vietnam and preached the gospel there. Then I spent the vacation in Hong Kong, which then had a population of four million. A prophet said beside me, “One day the doors to China will open. You must come back and start a church here because you will go to China when it opens.” After receiving such confirmation, I returned to Hong Kong in 1969 and started a church named Revival Christian Church. Praise the Lord that Deng Xiaoping opened China in 1978. We began a ministry of taking Bibles into China because Bibles were destroyed in the Cultural Revolution, then taught about the Holy Spirit across China.
China Christian Daily: As a foreign Christian, you have been living in Hong Kong for more than 50 years. What’s the difference between Chinese Christians and foreign Christians from your perspective?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: There is a difference between Christians in mainland China, especially in rural areas, and those outside China: they have a great love for the Lord and the Holy Bible. If you teach them anything, they want to know if it is in the Bible. In China, there are not many denominations like in the West, but Chinese Christians want to confirm if what Western churches and denominations bring is really the Word of God. If not, they reject it. There are also false cults in China, one of which is called Eastern Lightening or Almighty God, deceiving some believers who don’t check the Bible, but many Christians really honor the word of God.
Another distinction is the prayer life of Chinese Christians. When I went to villages in the late 1980s, I found that every church had a prayer meeting in the morning. There is a famous Chinese song called “Five O’clock in the Morning in China”. Quite often, before 5 a.m., they were on their knees, praying and crying intensely to the Lord.
Third, Chinese Christians have a great desire to share Jesus with other people. Sometimes it is not easy to do this, but they sent people to other villages and even to the minorities to preach the gospel.
China Christian Daily: What are the characteristics of the church in China at present? What challenge does it face? What should it stick to and change?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: Unlike Hong Kong and many Western countries, the churches in mainland China are under the governance of the rules of religion. The government in mainland China wants churches to be registered, and there is a large organization called the Three-Self Patriotic Movement. For historical and doctrinal reasons, many Christians do not desire to go to the official church; they meet at homes, and we call them “home churches.” But people may have misunderstood them as cell groups. Nobody knows the exact number of Chinese Christians, but we estimate that there are 70 to 80 percent of Christians in China meet at home churches.
Because of the regulations of religion, I encourage them to register, if possible, to have a good relationship with the government. Since China varies in different areas, it is not easy to register in some parts. My suggestion would be that they should do their best to register and obey the law, depending on their relationship with the authorities. But no matter what, they should meet together and divide the congregations into other areas to evangelize people. I’m optimistic that China will have more freedom over the years, and that Christianity will be a great contribution to the people of China.
China Chrisitan Daily: There are many Pentecostal churches in mainland China. What have been their changes over the past decade? The church in China has seen the revival of Pentecostalism and the rise of rational theology. There are many problems with some Pentecostal churches. How should the church in China treat Pentecostalism to avoid the unnecessary winding course?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: Also called the Charismatic Movement, Pentecostalism believes that Christians can be baptized by the Holy Spirit. Most Pentecostal churches believe that speaking in tongues is a sign of being filled with the Spirit. Chinese Christians would rise early in the morning and pray for one or two hours in the Spirit. Praying in the Spirit includes interceding for other people, which contributes to church growth. The vast majority of Protestant Christians and even some Catholics in China are filled with the Spirit or at least open to this. There is a great move in God’s work across the world, as there are 700–800 million Charismatic or Pentecostal Christians among about one billion Protestants.
But there are also problems, such as giving false prophecies or getting money from others. Coming from extreme or heretical sects, they came to China after the country opened up. For example, they emphasize spiritual warfare that focuses on principalities in the air, but we believe true welfare is preaching the gospel, healing the sick, and casting out demons. We have not been given authority from those principalities, but we have the authority to preach the gospel, heal the sick, and cast out demons. As more people believe in Jesus, the principalities and the powers of the air will lose their influence.
Unfortunately, many evangelicals have rejected the whole Pentecostal movement because of those extremes. For example, Hong Kong has the United Pentecostal Church, which only baptizes people in the name of Jesus and claims that people can only be baptized in their church to be saved and must speak in tongues. There is a similar church on the mainland named True Jesus Church, which rejects the doctrine of the Trinity and meets on the Sabbath. The same problem is that “we are the only true church.” So one of my main ministries is teaching the Word of God and good, solid evangelical doctrine.
Personally speaking, the greatest problem with Christianity in China is not persecution at all, because persecution unites us through more prayer and helps us grow. The problem is the teaching against the Holy Spirit or Reformed theology in an extreme form of Calvinism. Calvin was a great teacher, but people took his great book, the Institute of the Christian Religion, to an extreme, which caused many problems in China. People overestimated the predestination of the TULIP doctrine and claimed, “Once saved, always saved.”
Besides, cessation believes that all the gifts of the Holy Spirit cease until the last apostle John died. Also, a group called Hyper Grace teaches people that if they believe in Jesus, they don’t need to repent of their sins or live a holy life, since all their past, present, and future sins are forgiven. The hyper-prosperity gospel basically refers to the idea that the more you give to the preacher, the more money God will give back to you.
Those things from the West identified with the Pentecostal or Charismatic churches are not truly Pentecostal because Pentecostalism is about the Holy Spirit, the spirit of truth.
China Christian Daily: You used to train Christians in mainland China. Their needs have been changing over the past decades. What do you think Chinese Christians need from the world?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: There has been a tremendous change in China since the opening up in the late 1970s and 1980s. During that period, most people lived in an agrarian society, working on farms in rural areas, but now, the majority of them moved to cities. In the city, one must have a skill and work hard, and young people must receive education to get jobs, which have tremendously influenced urban Christians in general. Over the past decades, Christians in cities have become more materialistic than before. Satisfied with their simple life without many conveniences, rural Christians only wanted to live for Jesus and lead as many people as possible to Christ; everyone was a missionary. I noticed that once they became grounded in cities and got more education and jobs, they became very materialistic. The prosperity gospel was also coming to China, claiming that “God will bless you” rather than “you bless other people” and “serving the Lord”.
The answer to this challenge is that people should be truly baptized by the Holy Spirit and be filled with the Spirit. Acts 1:8 says that when the Spirit comes upon you, you receive power that pushes you forward to the Lord’s witness in Jerusalem, Samaria, Judea, and to the ends of the earth. Basically speaking, we need a revival in the church because the global church is becoming so materialistic in a way that people have more love for the things of the world: getting married to have a family, a house, and a vehicle. Jesus even warned of the dangers of materialism in the Bible: Be cautious of greed and cravings, the love of the world. My burden is to go back to the gospel, preach Jesus, and talk about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
China Christian Daily: Today, the largest church in the world still pays close attention to the Chinese church. Since you have been serving the Chinese church for decades, where do you think the Chinese church can make contributions to the global church? What's the significance of the Chinese church for the development of Christianity across the world?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: The Chinese churches can certainly make great contributions to the church worldwide. For example, they can teach us prayer, love for the Bible, and evangelism. Chinese Christians called me “teacher” instead of “pastor” for security reasons, but they were my teachers. They can teach me “practical theology”: how we live the life of a Christian. First of all, take up your cross. They do take up their crosses in China and remain faithful to the Lord, particularly in the face of persecution.
They are also enormously contributing to the fulfillment of the Great Commission. Many Chinese Christians have migrated overseas and attended international conferences. Our revival church in Paris has around 800 members, most of whom are from Wenzhou. While we call the Chinese the Jews of the Orient, Wenzhou people are the Jews of the Chinese. Usually involved in business, many Wenzhou people are part of the “Back to Jerusalem” vision. Chinese Christians are engaged in evangelism, scattering around the world, such as in Europe, Singapore, Indonesia, Bangladesh, and Pakistan. In the last few days, God has raised Christians in Asia, including China, Korea, Indonesia, and even India, and almost every Asian country has seen church growth. Around the world, the Chinese are the most responsive people to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
China Christian Daily: The vast majority of missionaries in Hong Kong have never learned the language well enough to preach in it and have very little understanding of or appreciation of the Chinese culture. Why is it that you and a small number of missionaries will totally bond with the people in language and culture and plant churches among the Chinese?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: There is a missionary principle of bonding. The book Bonding and the Missionary Task by the late E. Thomas Brewster basically claims that when any foreign missionary goes to another nation, he should bond with the local people. When I came to Hong Kong, I did not have much money and could only speak a little Cantonese. The local people invited me to their house, and I became friends with them. I was told to learn Cantonese at a university and where to rent a cheap apartment. I bonded with the Chinese, which was what Hudson Taylor and the China Inland Mission did—they bonded with the Chinese so much that they looked like the Chinese. They dressed like the Chinese, learned the language, and lived with the rural people.
But over the years, I found that the vast majority of missionaries in Hong Kong did not bond with the people. They never learned the language or understood the Chinese culture. The best way to learn a new language is to live with the locals instead of attending language classes. Missionaries are like Jesus, and the word should become flesh. In my situation, I was determined to become Chinese. It took me seven months to learn Cantonese, and it took my wife, who was born in Thailand, one year to acquire Cantonese. We speak Cantonese at home with our children. When I came to Hong Kong, I determined that it was my calling place for a lifetime. Some missionaries are always saying, “It’s so hard to understand Chinese” and “Why do the people do this?” As a result, many of them are unable to minister to the Chinese and without great love for them; they only minister to people who speak their language. Maybe they will invite interpreters to translate their preaching into the local language, but it was not the same as the CIM missionaries. We need to go back to what the mission is about: go to the nations, become one with the people you were called to, and learn the language and culture to reach the people of those nations.
China Christian Daily: You have been traveling to different countries over the years. Share with us what you have seen there, especially about those overseas Chinese churches. Do they share similarities with those in China?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: I have traveled to most nations in the world. Since our ministry provides Bibles for Christians in China, quite often, I’m invited to speak about China and the mission.
There is a great need for missionaries for the Chinese people, who constitute 17.5% of the global population. Chinese has been spoken as the most common mother tongue across the globe, but Christians in China may only make up seven to eight percent of the country’s population, meaning that most people have not been reached.
It’s not easy for foreigners to travel to China, but there are many ways to do missionary work. Our ministry provides Bibles that are legally obtained from Amity Printing Press for evangelism, as well as an online Bible teaching school for different Christians in China. We encourage the overseas people to reach the Chinese in their communities. Every major city around the world, such as London and New York, has tens of thousands of Chinese, many of whom are non-Christians. There are Chinese churches there, but many do not have a burden for reaching the people in mainland China, though they have friends and relatives there, nor do they provide financial aid and training resources for Christians in China. Sadly, many of them don’t pay attention to the real situation of the unsaved Chinese people living in China. The opposite is that many Western churches pray for China with great passion that Chinese will be saved, but it is more difficult for Western Christians to do any ministry in China.
One reason is that most overseas Chinese churches in North America and Europe, though they are evangelical in doctrine, they are not open to the Holy Spirit. They do believe in the Bible, but they don’t preach about the work of the Holy Spirit. Most of the church members are well-educated professionals, but they don’t reach Chinese working in restaurants, petrol stations, laundry shops, or even those sleeping on the streets in their community. The less-educated, poor Chinese may also not want to go to these kinds of churches.
One of our great challenges is to encourage overseas Chinese churches to have a passion for reaching other Chinese in their communities. Being truly evangelical means preaching the gospel. They should consider China for they can easily come here to speak with people, offer disaster relief, and help poor people and orphans.
China Christian Daily: After your more-than-40-year ministry for China, many native leaders have risen up, so what is your role now? What do you expect from those leaders and Chinese churches?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: There is an English saying: “Pass on the baton.” (薪火相传) It means that I give you the firewood and the fire so that you can carry on in this relay race, which started from the time of Jesus to the Pentecost until now. The current challenge is to give the vision, the anointing, and the tools of training to the young leaders who have the greatest influences. The church across the world is becoming old; in other words, you don’t see many young people. Due to education systems, churches’ policies about LGBTQ+ and abortions, and their opinions about evolution and creationism in Europe, many young people don’t attend church after graduation.
But thank God that there is a revival in young people. We have a Spirit-filled group of Christian artists in Hong Kong who are singing and producing videos and movies. We often have youth rallies where young people from many different churches are engaged in singing, worshiping, repenting, and being commissioned to preach the gospel together for several days.
My pastor told me not to continue to the role of the senior pastor beyond the age of 60. He gave his church to his son at 60, and I gave my church to my daughter and son-in-law at 59. Now they are planning to give it over to the young generation. We need to train young leaders and release them—let them lead the song service, and preach on Sundays, take part in administration, and especially take them on mission trips to other nations. We have had a ministry named “Donkeys for Jesus” for years, which brings the Bibles to China. Young people from the West, Southeast Asia, Taiwan, and even China participate in mission teams to deliver the Bibles to China. Because of this experience, many of them want to be missionaries in China and return to study in language schools on the mainland or in Hong Kong.
China Christian Daily: Do you have any words for the Chinese Church and Christians?
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: I believe the Lord has chosen the Chinese Church to take the gospel to nations and back to Jerusalem. Christianity began in Jerusalem and Antioch, where Paul and Barnabas planted a church in Asia Minor (today’s Turkey), and churches in the East grew to seven, as recorded in the book of Revelation, and continue to grow. In the book of Acts, Paul had a vision with the man from Macedonia: “Come to Macedonia and help us!” So the gospel went to the West instead of the east. After the Reformation, the gospel continued to prosper in the West, Africa, and the United States. In the late 19th and 20th centuries, the West sent missionaries to China, Korea, Indonesia, the Philippines, etc. Amazingly, the Asian people, who account for two-thirds of the global population, are responsive to the gospel, and the churches here are growing. So today’s mission is to take the gospel to unreached nations, like India, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, and Afghanistan. It appears that the gospel will go back to Jerusalem because, at the very end, the Jews will turn to the Lord and look at Him whom they pierced. This mandate has come to the Chinese Church: your country has good relationships with people in the Third World nations. We need to pray that the doors will continue to open and that the Chinese Church will have this vision to bless the nations of the world.
Watch the interview video episode 1 and episode 2.
Pastor Dennis Balcombe: Chinese Churches, Receive the Baton of Taking the Gospel to the Nations
