Editor's note: Amongst groups of Chinese pastors, the most discussed topics are how to increase the membership, how to increase the number of meeting points, and pastors' feelings and reflections on the objective environment. But few pastors have had a deep, collective discussion on how the church is cultivating the "new generation of successors".
The "new generation of successors" is a group of people who are already church workers and have the potential to lead the whole church in the future. Pastors today are intentionally selecting and focusing on training them. A few days ago, the Christian Times invited pastors of different ages (born in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s) to discuss "how to train the next generation of Chinese pastors".
In the first article of this serial interview with the Christian Times, Pastor Chen Tianfu (pseudonym for safety reasons), a theologically well-equipped man who was born in the 1980s, calls for "an urgent need to train a new generation of pastors."
Christian Times: What do you think of the church's efforts to cultivate a new generation of spiritual leaders or the next generation of pastors and successors?
Chen Tianfu: The new generation of spiritual leaders can be defined as the younger generation carrying the baton, standing up to lead the church. The lead pastor of a church should be conscious of cultivating a new generation of pastors. The people who carry the baton in the Bible are Moses and Joshua and Elijah and Elisha in the Old Testament, and Jesus and the Twelve Disciples in the New Testament. In fact, cultivating and passing on is necessary in this process.
When a pastor has this idea and pattern, he or she will do a good job of training the new generation of pastors to carry on the baton--help them to open up new areas, give guidance and help, and pass on Jesus' commandment of carrying out the Great Commission and the duties for pastors. However, the current situation is that not all pastors have this idea.
In fact, for pastors at different times, leadership demands different things from them. Because the leadership of Moses must have been different from the leadership of Joshua. Moses brought the people of Israel out of Egypt, while Joshua brought them into Canaan. There are people who are suited for pioneering work, and there are people who are suited for maintaining the church.
There are now three generations of pastors in China. The first generation were the pastors of the oldest generation, who are already gone, like Rev. Samuel Lamb or Li Tian'en. The second generation was like their direct successors, and they are the pastors who were born in 1980s. And the third generation are pastors who are born after 2000.
Christian Times: What do you think it means for the church in China to cultivate a new generation of church leaders?
Chen Tianfu: I often wonder how Jesus cultivates a new generation of leaders. I think the core of the church is to have good pastors. Without good pastors, it's hard for the church to grow. Jesus did many things. He went around proclaiming the Gospel, healing the sick, and preaching in public. But the core of his ministry was the 12 disciples. He often taught them privately and kept telling them about the cross he was going to face, and the responsibilities they were going to have after they left him. I think the revival of the church needs mature leaders like them.
For example, Rev. Samuel Lamb and Li Tian'en lived in a time when many pastors were not in the spotlight, but they chose to serve many people quietly. In this process, there were actually many loyal believers. They all played a leading role in the communities they could reach. Therefore, when pastors know how to delegate power and train young pastors, they can better continue the spirit of the Gospel of Christ, so that the church in China will have a bright future.
Christian Times: What do you think pastors in the Chinese church should do to become more open-minded about training a new generation of pastors? Or how should we do it operationally?
Chen Tianfu: I'm still exploring this aspect. Our church has a team of staff. In addition to me, there are two full-time workers and maybe seven or eight part-time workers. They have their own jobs while also having fixed areas of specific ministry in the church. Usually, a small church would have 1-3 church staff.
We can find the right personnel through a series of selections. For example, some personnel are in charge of the Sunday school, some are in charge of promoting the mission, and others are in charge of a meeting place. This is the process of training them, because they had no experience at the beginning, and the pastors want to delegate power to them so that they can try new work. And then we can guide them, and find out about their character and weaknesses in this process. We can also encourage them. It's a very complicated process. We've cultivated many new pastors, but maybe at this stage, they're not mature enough. We will have to wait until they are mature or until someone else comes along who is more suitable for the job.
It is difficult to train fellow workers like Moses who raised Joshua from childhood. In the operation process of the church, there will be some loss of workers. You need to keep expanding your team of co-workers and keep giving them more tasks and making them more capable. It is a complicated process, and it's important to pray, because it's not necessarily what you want, and it's a big burden on the present leaders.
Christian Times: What do you think are the necessary factors to consider in choosing the right pastors?
Chen Tianfu: Pastors should learn to entrust their trust and power to those who have potential in the future. Because the work is complicated enough, there must be a team. Having a team means you have to hand over many things, and you have to allow some things to be out of your control. And that's a kind of commitment to God.
The first requirement for a potential worker is faithfulness to the Lord Christ. The second is ability. But to be a leader, you need not only loyalty but also competence and vision. Vision is sometimes more important than the others because you have to help your team see the greater needs of the church and see the greater possibilities.
In fact, many pastors are afraid to try something new and are afraid to try to hand something over to someone less mature, for fear of the negative consequences. We must have the ability to see that there may be better results.
Christian Times: What do you think is a healthy model for training and selecting a new generation of pastors? What ideas or patterns in the church in China need to be updated?
Chen Tianfu: As for the church I'm in, I am very upset about this aspect because we still do not have enough workers. I think we should do more to increase the number of staff. What if we do not have enough workers?
Recently, we held an orientation meeting on the needs of the church's ministry, also known as a job fair. The first goal of this fair was to let the participants see where the church as a whole is going and what it actually needs. The second goal was to let them think about whether they really want to go down this path of ministry.
There are two means for selecting talents. One is for us to recruit and build a team, while the other is to figure out the right person by meeting them one by one, just like Barnabas found Paul. When you need someone, you go and find that person, and you can do it openly. Our job fair was well attended, but whether or not there is any suitable person is beyond our control. At least those who attend will know the church's specific needs for workers.
And about what we expect from our workers. If someone is going to serve full-time, the most important thing our church requires is that he or she has proof of salvation and a call from God. At the same time, we also require a junior college or bachelor's degree.
Here's why. We want the congregation to know that being a church minister is not something suitable for anybody. It's not that someone can't find a job in the community, so he or she settles for serving in a church. At present, more than 80% of our church members are junior college or undergraduate students, making them a special group of believers. If there is no corresponding diploma, there will be some problems in the future while they are preaching.
My method to judge is to observe while talking to them. I would talk to them individually and ask them if they had a call from God. Letting them pray on their own is a good way to figure out the right person. I think most pastors would probably do this, but this process is still a little too mysterious for the congregation. It's like they're suddenly hearing about someone starting to work for the church, and they don't know exactly how that person made the decision. Therefore, the church also needs to tell them publicly about the process of selecting fellow workers, so that they can be more clear about the direction of their future efforts for Christ.
- Translated by Nicolas Cao
编者按：在中国牧者群体的团契中，通常被讨论的话题最多的，是如何复兴教会的聚会人数、如何扩张更多的聚会点、亦或是牧者对客观环境的感慨和反思等等。但却鲜有牧者群体对教会如何培养“新一代接棒人”话题进行集体深入的讨论。
“新一代的接棒人”是指，在已经成为教会同工的人群里，牧者有意去拣选和着重培养一个或多个有潜力未来去带领整体教会的人。日前，基督时报邀请多位60后、70后、80后不同年龄段的牧者就“如何培养中国教会下一代接棒人？”的话题进行对话。
本系列的第一篇是由一位80后受过良好神学装备的陈天福牧师（化名）受访，他呼吁：“亟需有培养传承新一代牧者的意识”。
基督时报：您如何看教会在培养新一代属灵领袖，或者说下一代牧者、教会接棒人这个事情？
陈天福：新一代属灵领袖可以理解为，年轻的一代站起来作为带领教会的接棒人。教会的主任牧师要有培养传承新一代牧者的意识，圣经中提到的接棒人就像旧约中的摩西跟约书亚、以利亚跟以利沙、耶稣跟十二个门徒，其实这些都是要有一个培养和承接的过程。
当牧者有这种想法和格局，他会很好的预备下一任接棒人，然后帮助新人去开拓新的领域，给予指导和帮助，把耶稣的大使命和牧者的职责交接下去，但现状是：不是所有的牧者都有这个想法。
其实对每个不同时代的牧者来说，领导力对他们的要求都是不一样的。因为摩西的领导力跟那个约书亚的领导力肯定是不一样的，一个是要把以色列百姓带出埃及，另一个是要把他们带进迦南。有一些人适合做开拓的，有一些人适合做保守教会的工作，都是不同领导力的需要。
在中国的牧者，现在有三个层次和阶段。比如，最老的一辈，但他们已经离开了，像林献羔、李天恩的老一辈；第二个阶段像是他们的接班人，然后是现在的80后牧者阶段。接下来的10年到20年的一个时代。
基督时报：您觉得培养新一代的领导力对于中国教会的意义是什么呢？
陈天福：我常常会想耶稣是如何培养新一代的领袖？我觉得教会的核心就是要有好的牧者。如果没有好的牧者，教会很难发展，因为耶稣做的事情很多——传福音医治病人，公开讲道，传道旅行。但是他的事工当中的核心是12个门徒，所以常常给他们开小灶，还有不断地告诉他们自己要所去面对的十字架，还有告诉他们自己离开以后，他们要去承担的责任。我觉得教会的复兴离不开这些成熟的领袖。
像林献羔、李天恩很多老前辈他们所处的那个时代，其实很多牧者是没有在聚光灯下的，但是默默事奉了很多人，这个过程当中其实是有很多忠心的仆人。他们都在他们所能够接触到的群体里面去发挥他们的带领作用。因此，当牧者懂得放权和培养，才能更好的延续基督福音的精神，这样中国教会才有未来。
基督时报：您觉得中国教会牧者在培养新一代接棒人的事情上怎样在观念上变得更加开阔？或者具体操作上应该要怎么做呢？
陈天福：这个方面我还在探索。我们教会是有同工团队的，全职除了我还有两个以外，兼职的话可能有七八个。因此，他们一边有自己的工作，一边在教会有固定的特定事奉的领域。一般小型教会里有1-3个同工就算很不错了。
你可以通过层层选拔来做，譬如说，有专门主管主日学这一块，有专门管宣教推动的领域，也有负责管理一个聚会点的。这就是开展培训他们的过程了，因为他们开始的时候没有经验，那牧者要更多的放权给他们去尝试。然后你可以引导他们，然后在这个过程当中观察他们的品性，以及能力的短板和长板。然后再继续去鼓励他们，这还是蛮复杂的一个过程。而且就像你培养了很多，但是可能现阶段，在某个阶段可能大家都还不能成熟，你就要忍耐等到他们成熟或者出来有更合适的接棒人。
培养同工的过程很难做到像摩西把约书亚从小培养到大，牧会的过程中工人也会有流失的情况。你需要不断的扩大你的同工团队，并且给同工们不断地要加添更多的一些任务，还有赋予他们更多的能力。这是挺复杂的一个过程，而且务必需要祷告，因为不一定是你想要的，对那个带领者也是一个很大的负担。
基督时报：对于如何选出合上帝心意的接棒人，您觉得要考虑到哪些必要的因素呢？
陈天福：牧者要尽量学会把信任和权力交托给未来有潜力的人。当牧者做到一定的程度的时候，肯定是要有一个团队。有团队的话就意味着你要把很多东西交出去，你要允许有些事情不在你的控制范围内，这也算是对上帝的一种交托。
对于有潜力工人的一个要求 ，第一个需要对主基督有忠心，其次需要有能力。但是作为领袖的话，不仅要有忠心，还要有能力和眼光。眼光有时候是比别的更重要，因为你要帮助你的团队看到教会更大的需要，还有看到那个更大的可能性。
一个事实是，很多牧者害怕去尝试新的东西，还有很害怕去尝试把东西交不太成熟的人，因为害怕会出来负面的问题，但同时也要看到可能出来更大的果效。
基督时报：您觉得一个健康的培养并选择接棒人的模式应该是怎样的呢？我们当下中国教会哪些观念或者模式需要更新呢？
陈天福：像我们教会的话，这个方面我是很苦恼的，因为我们现在的工人也还是不够，我觉得大家应该更多地去拓展，那工人不够怎么办？
前段时间我们开了教会事工需求说明会，也可以叫做招聘会。两个作用，一个是让他们看到教会整体的方向和实际上的需要，第二个让他们去考虑，是不是真的想走这个事奉的道路。
选拔人的办法有两种可能性，一个是我们主动招募和组建团队，另一个是你一个一个去找，就像巴拿巴去找保罗一样。你需要什么人，你就自己去找这样的人，但你也是可以公开地做。我们这次的招聘会参加的人并不少，但是当中会不会有人回应不是我们能够控制的。至少参加的人他们会知道教会对工人的具体的需要。
还有包括我们对工人有什么的要求？如果你要全职事奉的话，我们教会要求最重要的是你要有得救的确据和来自上帝的呼召；与此同时，我们也要求受聘者要有大专或者是本科的学历。
这一点需要说明下原因：我们希望会众知道，教会的事奉者不是随便可以做的，不是说我在社会当中找不到工作，那我就将就在一家教会里面去服事。因为目前我们教会的信众有80%以上是专科或者本科，是比较特别的信众群体。如果没有相应的一个文凭去牧养的时候，未来会有一些问题和更吃力的地方。
我开这个说明会之前，我用的方法是观察，然后我会单独找他们去聊天，问他们是不是有上帝的呼召，所以让他们自己去祷告，这是一个办法。我觉得大多数的牧者可能都会这样子做，但对于会众来说会过于神秘了，就好像都是突然间听到某个人做同工，所以他们不知道到底这个人是怎么做的决定。所以教会也需要有一些公开的场合去告诉她们，选拔同工是怎样的一个流程，这样他们也会更加清楚未来在基督里努力的方向。
话题•如何培养中国教会新一代接棒人(一) 亟需有培养传承新一代牧者的意识
Editor's note: Amongst groups of Chinese pastors, the most discussed topics are how to increase the membership, how to increase the number of meeting points, and pastors' feelings and reflections on the objective environment. But few pastors have had a deep, collective discussion on how the church is cultivating the "new generation of successors".
The "new generation of successors" is a group of people who are already church workers and have the potential to lead the whole church in the future. Pastors today are intentionally selecting and focusing on training them. A few days ago, the Christian Times invited pastors of different ages (born in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s) to discuss "how to train the next generation of Chinese pastors".
In the first article of this serial interview with the Christian Times, Pastor Chen Tianfu (pseudonym for safety reasons), a theologically well-equipped man who was born in the 1980s, calls for "an urgent need to train a new generation of pastors."
Christian Times: What do you think of the church's efforts to cultivate a new generation of spiritual leaders or the next generation of pastors and successors?
Chen Tianfu: The new generation of spiritual leaders can be defined as the younger generation carrying the baton, standing up to lead the church. The lead pastor of a church should be conscious of cultivating a new generation of pastors. The people who carry the baton in the Bible are Moses and Joshua and Elijah and Elisha in the Old Testament, and Jesus and the Twelve Disciples in the New Testament. In fact, cultivating and passing on is necessary in this process.
When a pastor has this idea and pattern, he or she will do a good job of training the new generation of pastors to carry on the baton--help them to open up new areas, give guidance and help, and pass on Jesus' commandment of carrying out the Great Commission and the duties for pastors. However, the current situation is that not all pastors have this idea.
In fact, for pastors at different times, leadership demands different things from them. Because the leadership of Moses must have been different from the leadership of Joshua. Moses brought the people of Israel out of Egypt, while Joshua brought them into Canaan. There are people who are suited for pioneering work, and there are people who are suited for maintaining the church.
There are now three generations of pastors in China. The first generation were the pastors of the oldest generation, who are already gone, like Rev. Samuel Lamb or Li Tian'en. The second generation was like their direct successors, and they are the pastors who were born in 1980s. And the third generation are pastors who are born after 2000.
Christian Times: What do you think it means for the church in China to cultivate a new generation of church leaders?
Chen Tianfu: I often wonder how Jesus cultivates a new generation of leaders. I think the core of the church is to have good pastors. Without good pastors, it's hard for the church to grow. Jesus did many things. He went around proclaiming the Gospel, healing the sick, and preaching in public. But the core of his ministry was the 12 disciples. He often taught them privately and kept telling them about the cross he was going to face, and the responsibilities they were going to have after they left him. I think the revival of the church needs mature leaders like them.
For example, Rev. Samuel Lamb and Li Tian'en lived in a time when many pastors were not in the spotlight, but they chose to serve many people quietly. In this process, there were actually many loyal believers. They all played a leading role in the communities they could reach. Therefore, when pastors know how to delegate power and train young pastors, they can better continue the spirit of the Gospel of Christ, so that the church in China will have a bright future.
Christian Times: What do you think pastors in the Chinese church should do to become more open-minded about training a new generation of pastors? Or how should we do it operationally?
Chen Tianfu: I'm still exploring this aspect. Our church has a team of staff. In addition to me, there are two full-time workers and maybe seven or eight part-time workers. They have their own jobs while also having fixed areas of specific ministry in the church. Usually, a small church would have 1-3 church staff.
We can find the right personnel through a series of selections. For example, some personnel are in charge of the Sunday school, some are in charge of promoting the mission, and others are in charge of a meeting place. This is the process of training them, because they had no experience at the beginning, and the pastors want to delegate power to them so that they can try new work. And then we can guide them, and find out about their character and weaknesses in this process. We can also encourage them. It's a very complicated process. We've cultivated many new pastors, but maybe at this stage, they're not mature enough. We will have to wait until they are mature or until someone else comes along who is more suitable for the job.
It is difficult to train fellow workers like Moses who raised Joshua from childhood. In the operation process of the church, there will be some loss of workers. You need to keep expanding your team of co-workers and keep giving them more tasks and making them more capable. It is a complicated process, and it's important to pray, because it's not necessarily what you want, and it's a big burden on the present leaders.
Christian Times: What do you think are the necessary factors to consider in choosing the right pastors?
Chen Tianfu: Pastors should learn to entrust their trust and power to those who have potential in the future. Because the work is complicated enough, there must be a team. Having a team means you have to hand over many things, and you have to allow some things to be out of your control. And that's a kind of commitment to God.
The first requirement for a potential worker is faithfulness to the Lord Christ. The second is ability. But to be a leader, you need not only loyalty but also competence and vision. Vision is sometimes more important than the others because you have to help your team see the greater needs of the church and see the greater possibilities.
In fact, many pastors are afraid to try something new and are afraid to try to hand something over to someone less mature, for fear of the negative consequences. We must have the ability to see that there may be better results.
Christian Times: What do you think is a healthy model for training and selecting a new generation of pastors? What ideas or patterns in the church in China need to be updated?
Chen Tianfu: As for the church I'm in, I am very upset about this aspect because we still do not have enough workers. I think we should do more to increase the number of staff. What if we do not have enough workers?
Recently, we held an orientation meeting on the needs of the church's ministry, also known as a job fair. The first goal of this fair was to let the participants see where the church as a whole is going and what it actually needs. The second goal was to let them think about whether they really want to go down this path of ministry.
There are two means for selecting talents. One is for us to recruit and build a team, while the other is to figure out the right person by meeting them one by one, just like Barnabas found Paul. When you need someone, you go and find that person, and you can do it openly. Our job fair was well attended, but whether or not there is any suitable person is beyond our control. At least those who attend will know the church's specific needs for workers.
And about what we expect from our workers. If someone is going to serve full-time, the most important thing our church requires is that he or she has proof of salvation and a call from God. At the same time, we also require a junior college or bachelor's degree.
Here's why. We want the congregation to know that being a church minister is not something suitable for anybody. It's not that someone can't find a job in the community, so he or she settles for serving in a church. At present, more than 80% of our church members are junior college or undergraduate students, making them a special group of believers. If there is no corresponding diploma, there will be some problems in the future while they are preaching.
My method to judge is to observe while talking to them. I would talk to them individually and ask them if they had a call from God. Letting them pray on their own is a good way to figure out the right person. I think most pastors would probably do this, but this process is still a little too mysterious for the congregation. It's like they're suddenly hearing about someone starting to work for the church, and they don't know exactly how that person made the decision. Therefore, the church also needs to tell them publicly about the process of selecting fellow workers, so that they can be more clear about the direction of their future efforts for Christ.
- Translated by Nicolas Cao
Topic: Church Leaders Need Raise Consciousness to Cultivate Emerging Generation Leaders
