Editor's Note: Born in 1966, a female believer surnamed J followed her mother in the faith of God since childhood. She used to be a primary school teacher and began to serve full-time in 2009. After that, J received very little support. At the age of retirement, she has to make ends meet, as she is also taking care of her paralyzed mother. Despite all the hardships, she still gives thanks for everything. At present, J does not serve in a fixed church. She works as a substitute teacher and home tutor to earn a living and rents while participating in church sermons and visits.
To lead church pastors and believers in paying more attention to those who remained on the front line despite the difficulties, J was interviewed on the topic of the difficulty of supporting pastors. As a freelance pastor, she lives in a place as far as two hours by subway from downtown in a developed city in southern China. Apart from her mental journey as a freelance pastor, she shared the burden she had to bear, as well as her worries and expectations for the future of Chinese churches.
Q: Could you talk about your service experience? How did you embark on it?
I followed my mother to believe in the Lord since childhood, who used to be a crazy evangelist. I was once a primary school teacher and was called at a party in 2006. Then I went to study theology, started to give up my job, and served full time from 2009. My mother was ill in 2012, so I took care of her while serving, during which we lived in many cities. It's been a hard journey, but I also experienced countless blessings from God.
Q: How is your mother now?
In 2012, my mother began to suffer from heart failure, kidney failure, and several critical illnesses. Thank God, she finally came over. After a fall during the Spring Festival this year, she had to stay in hospital for more than a month and needed to receive care all day long. Thank God, now she can sit in a wheelchair and eat something. She is sometimes sober and sometimes confused when she would call me her sister. We have just moved here for half a year, for relatively cheap rent."
Q: Where do you serve now?
I don't have a fixed church now. When some would ask me to preach, I will go there when I have time, and I would also arrange a time to visit, but I can't go for too long as I need to take care of my mother, while my father can help buy food and cook. Last year, I served in a church for one year, but it was difficult for the church to support me. I had to rent a house by myself. Recently, some pastors wanted me to work as a co-worker, but if I worked full-time, I would have to ask a nanny to take care of my mother, which means a considerable daily cost for me. I really want to serve full-time, but the conditions don't allow it.
Q: For your situation, will the pastor and church that invited you to offer help or support?
Generally, no. I know their difficulties. Nowadays, most of the family church believers are middle-aged or elderly, who would help their children to take care of their grandchildren, and have no ability to donate. Especially under the pandemic situation, church pastors are under great pressure. They are in a very difficult time and have no strength to support the pastors.
Q: Are there many pastors like you who are involved in church service but are not supported?
Actually, there are many pastors like me. Several pastors around me are willing to serve, but they can only choose to serve part-time because they don't have a basic living guarantee. However, they are in a better situation than me as they can find jobs, while I have to take care of my mother, and can't go out to work. My mother can take a wheelchair recently, so that I can find some part-time jobs, such as being a home tutor.
Q: You said that more than one church invited you to serve?
Yes, the churches have a great need for preachers and pastors. Especially under the pandemic situation when we cannot gather on a large scale and the church is closed, some who are thirsty for His words would form groups to get together and study the Bible. There are many such groups now. They are incapable of pastoring themselves, so they are eager to have pastors to lead them in studying the Bible. For such group study, I would try my best to pastor as long as I have time, even if there is no support. But this is very limited.
Q: What do you think of the lack of support of preachers?
I don't think it is a healthy model, and it is not conducive to the development of grass-roots churches in China in the long run. Over the past 10 years, I have seen many preachers in a hard time, and many of them have left their ministry positions because of their difficulties. As preachers, we put the ministry first, but we also need to provide for our parents and children. We may not pursue a high-quality life, but we still need basic supplies. Only when the preacher has no such worries can he be fully convinced in serving.
I don't want to see the preachers leaving for a living. My daughter, who is good in spiritual life was suggested to serve full-time, but she said it would be a hard life after witnessing my experience and did not want to work full-time. However, she is willing to provide for the preachers, and I supported her in serving part-time.
Q: Some would say, "The harder a preacher suffers, the more spiritual he becomes". What do you think of it?
In many times, the preachers are harmed not by the world, but by churches and believers. Seeing the difficulties of preachers, many churches and believers would not try to help but pass on the responsibility to God. Church pastors or enthusiastic believers would simply say, "God will bless you when you give all your heart and soul".
When I quit my service position because of practical difficulties, brothers and sisters in the church advised me in the same way. They said, "It's the loss of the church if you leave. Stay and serve. God will not treat you ill." A simple sentence would leave you with nothing to say. If you refuse, they may think that you have no confidence or are short-sighted, and are serving for the service fee. I replied to them that if a preacher serves for the service fee, you can refuse to invite him, but if the church has the ability and does not support us, it is their debt to the preacher and to God.
In fact, workers deserve their wages. "Do not keep the ox from taking the grain when he is crushing it." Not to say human. However, it is difficult for many preachers to get basic supplies. The church should not treat preachers as free labor or employees but should treat them as family members, cherish them and respect them.
Some would argue that I can use my parents' pension to pay the rent, but they also need to be taken care of. Once they get sick and are hospitalized, it's not a matter of a small amount of money. Would I raise money from the brothers and sisters? I don't want it. So I'd rather serve part-time.
Q: Any suggestions on the support of preachers?
I think we can learn from foreign experiences.
First of all, almost all the missionaries sent to China a long time ago were top talents in terms of personal knowledge, ability, character, and spiritual life. So there appeared missionaries like the Cambridge Seven.
Second, the church should strongly support the work of missionaries, not only through prayer but also through financial support, so that missionaries can concentrate on their ministry. Missionaries have set up hospitals and schools all across China, which have trained a large number of outstanding talents and pastors for China.
On the other hand, Chinese churches need to improve their awareness. Many churches think that preachers have to suffer, be selfless, and cannot get high pay, and believe that if preachers live comfortably, they would have no motivation and not rely on God. These ideas need to be changed. Otherwise, more people who want to serve the Lord will leave. Just as China is constantly increasing the income of teachers in order to attract more talents to engage in educational work.
Q: How do you handle the misunderstanding and harm from the church and believers?
I have met many brothers and sisters who love the Lord. They are not capable of giving, but they can give touching love. I have also met people who have the ability to give but are unwilling to. I used to serve in a church, the head of which was a rich businessman who built the church himself. At that time, my daughter was still in college. I would look up to the Lord for the tuition every semester. I served there for quite a period of time but got no supply at all. When I left, the nanny of his family cared about my traveling expenses and gave me RMB 100. I experienced too much, which made me learn a lesson. That is, I cannot put my hopes on others, as they often bring disappointment, discouragement, and even despair. Only by focusing on God can there be hope.
I'm building confidence recently. I haven’t been able to work for nearly half a year after my mother was hospitalized, and I have the big pressure of paying the rent. My daughter helped to pay the deposit and part of the rent, but I could not put this pressure on my daughter, so I prayed. Last month, my mother was able to take a wheelchair. Immediately, a brother introduced me to a tutor work, four times a month, which would provide just enough income to pay the rent.
- Translated by Oliver Zuo
笔者按：J姐66年出生，从小跟着母亲信仰，曾经是一名小学教师，09年开始全职服事。J姐全职之后基本没有得到供养，现在虽是到了退休的年龄，却还是要为生计奔波，同时J姐还承担着照顾瘫痪母亲的责任，虽然一路艰辛，J姐仍然凡事谢恩。目前J姐没有固定教会，她一边靠代课家教补贴房租家用，一边自由参与教会讲道探访等工作。
笔者与J姐探讨了关于传道人供养难的问题，渴望教会牧者和信徒能够多多关注那些在艰难中依然坚守在一线的传道人们。 （==此句当summary）
J姐是一个自由传道人，目前居住在南方一个发达的城市，但她住的地方离市区很远，坐地铁要两个多小时。
J姐分享了她作为自由传道人的心路历程，以及要承担的重担，更多的是她对中国教会未来的担忧和期盼。
问：可以谈谈您的服事经历吗？您是怎么走上服事道路的？
我是从小跟着妈妈信主，我妈妈曾经是疯狂传福音的人，我原来是小学老师，06年在一次聚会中得到呼召，之后去读过神学，09年开始放下工作全职服事。12年妈妈生病，之后就一边照顾妈妈一边服事，期间走过多个城市。一路走来很艰辛，但是也经历了神无数的恩典。
问：阿姨现在情况怎么样？
妈妈在2012年的时候开始心脏衰竭，肾衰竭，几次病危，感谢神最后都过来了，今年春节摔了一跤，住了一个多月的院，24小时需要人照顾，感谢神，现在她可以坐轮椅了，也能吃些东西。意识时而清醒时而糊涂，有时候会叫我妹妹。我们刚搬到这里半年，这里房租相对便宜。”
问：您现在在哪里服事？
我目前没有固定教会，只是有些人请我去讲道，我有时间就过去，然后平时会安排时间探访之类的，但是不能走太久。我要照顾妈妈，爸爸可以帮助买菜做饭。去年在一个教会服事一年，但是教会很难，没有能力供应，我自己要租房子。最近也有牧师想请我去做同工，但是如果过去做全职，就要请保姆照顾我的妈妈，保姆一天的费用也不少。虽然我也很想全职事奉，但是条件不允许。
问：对于您这种特殊情况，邀请您的牧师和教会会主动提出帮助或支持吗？
一般是没有的，我也了解教会的难处，现在家庭教会信徒很多是中老年，帮助儿女带孩子的，本身没有奉献能力。尤其疫情之下，教会牧师压力也大，他们自己都很难，就更无法顾及到传道人了。
问：像您这样参与教会的服事，但是得不到供养的传道人多吗？
像我这样的其实很多，我身边就有好几个传道人，他们很愿意服事，但是因为没有基本的生活保障，只能选择带职服事。不过他们情况还好一点，他们可以去找工作，我因为要照顾老人，很多时间走不出去，最近妈妈可以坐轮椅，我才能找点兼职家教之类的。
问：据您说，不止一个教会想请您过去服事？
是的，教会对传道人和牧者的需要是很大的，尤其是疫情之下，不能大规模聚集，教堂关门。一些渴慕话语的人，想要聚会，想学习圣经，他们就组成了小组。现在这样的小组是很多的，他们自己没有能力牧养，所以很渴望有人带领学习圣经。对于这样的小组学习，我只要有时间，没有供应我也都尽量过去牧养，但是一个人很有限。
问：您是怎么看待传道人的供养跟不上的问题？
我想这不是一个健康的模式，长期下去不利于中国基层教会的发展。这10多年的时间，我看到很多的传道人都很艰难，其中也不乏因为艰难而离开服事的位置。作为传道人，我们当然首先是完全摆上，这是不错的。可是我们毕竟生活在世上，我们需要供养父母和孩子，我们可以不追求高品质的生活，但是基本的供应还是要有的。传道人没有了后顾之忧，才可以全身心服事。
我不愿意看到传道人为了生活一点点流失掉。像我的女儿，生命也很好，有人建议她全职侍奉，但是她说她看到妈妈太苦了，不想做全职，但她愿意供养传道人，我也支持她带职服事。
问：您怎么看待“传道人越吃苦越属灵”这句话？
很多时候，传道人的伤害不是世界给的，反而是教会和信徒给的。面对传道人的难处，很多教会和信徒不是去想办法帮助，而是直接把人的责任推给神。教会的牧者或者热心的信徒会简单地说“你奉献你的全身心，上帝会祝福你的”。
当我因为现实的难处从服事位置退出的时候，教会弟兄姐妹也是这样劝我的，他们说：“你走了是教会的损失，留下服事吧，上帝不会亏待你。”一句“上帝不会亏待你”，让你无话可说。如果你拒绝了，他们可能还会认为你没有信心或者目光短浅，是冲着服事金去的，我说如果传道人是奔着服事金去的，你可以不用他，但是如果教会有能力而不供养，那就是对传道人的亏欠，也是对神的亏欠。
其实工人得工价是应当的。“牛在场上踹谷的时候，不可笼住它的嘴”何况是人呢？可是很多传道人很难得到基本的供应。而教会不应该把传道人仅仅当做免费劳动力或者雇工，而是应该把传道人当家人，应该爱惜，应该尊重。
也有人觉得我可以用我父母的退休金来交房租，可是父母生活也需要照顾。而且一旦生病住院，就不是一两个钱的事情。难道我要去找弟兄姐妹募捐吗？我是不愿意去募捐的。所以我宁可带职服事。
问：对于传道人供养问题的建议？
我想，我们一方面可以借鉴一下国外。
首先，最初派遣到中国的国外宣教士，几乎都是当时社会上最优秀的人，无论是个人学识、能力、品格还是属灵生命等各个方面都是顶级人才。所以当时出现了像剑桥七杰这样的宣教士。
第二，教会大力支持宣教士的工作，不仅是祷告支持，包括财力支持，让宣教士可以专心事工，宣教士可以在国内各地建立医院、学校，这为我们国家培养了大批优秀的人才和牧者同工。
另一方面国内教会的认知需要提高，不能一味地觉得传道人就要受苦，就要无私，就不能拿高薪，觉得传道人生活安逸了，就没有动力了，就不依靠神了......这些想法要改变。否则只能是会有越来越多想要服事主的人流失掉。这个就像国家为了吸引更多人才从事教育工作，也在不断提高教师的收入。
问：您怎么面对教会和信徒的误解和伤害？
我见到过许多爱主的弟兄姐妹，他们没有奉献的能力，但有爱心，很感人；也遇到过有能力奉献却不愿意奉献的人。曾经去一个教会服事，教会负责人是个富有的商人，自己盖的教堂，那时候我女儿还在上大学，每一学期的学费都是仰望主。我在那里服事一段时间，但是他没有任何供应，我走的时候，还是他家的保姆问我有没有路费，最后保姆给我100元作为路费……经历太多了，这让我学到了一个功课，就是不能把眼光定睛在人的身上。人带来的常常是失望、灰心，甚至是绝望，唯独定睛在神的身上才有盼望。
最近也在走信心的道路，我妈妈住院之后快半年我不能工作，我对房租很有压力。女儿帮助交了押金和部分房租，但是我不能把这个压力给女儿，我就祷告，上个月妈妈可以坐轮椅了，马上就有弟兄给我介绍了一份家教，一个月四次，这样一个月的家教收入正好够交房租。
访谈一位服事主多年的基层女性传道人谈供养难的现状：长期下去对中国教-会发展不利
Editor's Note: Born in 1966, a female believer surnamed J followed her mother in the faith of God since childhood. She used to be a primary school teacher and began to serve full-time in 2009. After that, J received very little support. At the age of retirement, she has to make ends meet, as she is also taking care of her paralyzed mother. Despite all the hardships, she still gives thanks for everything. At present, J does not serve in a fixed church. She works as a substitute teacher and home tutor to earn a living and rents while participating in church sermons and visits.
To lead church pastors and believers in paying more attention to those who remained on the front line despite the difficulties, J was interviewed on the topic of the difficulty of supporting pastors. As a freelance pastor, she lives in a place as far as two hours by subway from downtown in a developed city in southern China. Apart from her mental journey as a freelance pastor, she shared the burden she had to bear, as well as her worries and expectations for the future of Chinese churches.
Q: Could you talk about your service experience? How did you embark on it?
I followed my mother to believe in the Lord since childhood, who used to be a crazy evangelist. I was once a primary school teacher and was called at a party in 2006. Then I went to study theology, started to give up my job, and served full time from 2009. My mother was ill in 2012, so I took care of her while serving, during which we lived in many cities. It's been a hard journey, but I also experienced countless blessings from God.
Q: How is your mother now?
In 2012, my mother began to suffer from heart failure, kidney failure, and several critical illnesses. Thank God, she finally came over. After a fall during the Spring Festival this year, she had to stay in hospital for more than a month and needed to receive care all day long. Thank God, now she can sit in a wheelchair and eat something. She is sometimes sober and sometimes confused when she would call me her sister. We have just moved here for half a year, for relatively cheap rent."
Q: Where do you serve now?
I don't have a fixed church now. When some would ask me to preach, I will go there when I have time, and I would also arrange a time to visit, but I can't go for too long as I need to take care of my mother, while my father can help buy food and cook. Last year, I served in a church for one year, but it was difficult for the church to support me. I had to rent a house by myself. Recently, some pastors wanted me to work as a co-worker, but if I worked full-time, I would have to ask a nanny to take care of my mother, which means a considerable daily cost for me. I really want to serve full-time, but the conditions don't allow it.
Q: For your situation, will the pastor and church that invited you to offer help or support?
Generally, no. I know their difficulties. Nowadays, most of the family church believers are middle-aged or elderly, who would help their children to take care of their grandchildren, and have no ability to donate. Especially under the pandemic situation, church pastors are under great pressure. They are in a very difficult time and have no strength to support the pastors.
Q: Are there many pastors like you who are involved in church service but are not supported?
Actually, there are many pastors like me. Several pastors around me are willing to serve, but they can only choose to serve part-time because they don't have a basic living guarantee. However, they are in a better situation than me as they can find jobs, while I have to take care of my mother, and can't go out to work. My mother can take a wheelchair recently, so that I can find some part-time jobs, such as being a home tutor.
Q: You said that more than one church invited you to serve?
Yes, the churches have a great need for preachers and pastors. Especially under the pandemic situation when we cannot gather on a large scale and the church is closed, some who are thirsty for His words would form groups to get together and study the Bible. There are many such groups now. They are incapable of pastoring themselves, so they are eager to have pastors to lead them in studying the Bible. For such group study, I would try my best to pastor as long as I have time, even if there is no support. But this is very limited.
Q: What do you think of the lack of support of preachers?
I don't think it is a healthy model, and it is not conducive to the development of grass-roots churches in China in the long run. Over the past 10 years, I have seen many preachers in a hard time, and many of them have left their ministry positions because of their difficulties. As preachers, we put the ministry first, but we also need to provide for our parents and children. We may not pursue a high-quality life, but we still need basic supplies. Only when the preacher has no such worries can he be fully convinced in serving.
I don't want to see the preachers leaving for a living. My daughter, who is good in spiritual life was suggested to serve full-time, but she said it would be a hard life after witnessing my experience and did not want to work full-time. However, she is willing to provide for the preachers, and I supported her in serving part-time.
Q: Some would say, "The harder a preacher suffers, the more spiritual he becomes". What do you think of it?
In many times, the preachers are harmed not by the world, but by churches and believers. Seeing the difficulties of preachers, many churches and believers would not try to help but pass on the responsibility to God. Church pastors or enthusiastic believers would simply say, "God will bless you when you give all your heart and soul".
When I quit my service position because of practical difficulties, brothers and sisters in the church advised me in the same way. They said, "It's the loss of the church if you leave. Stay and serve. God will not treat you ill." A simple sentence would leave you with nothing to say. If you refuse, they may think that you have no confidence or are short-sighted, and are serving for the service fee. I replied to them that if a preacher serves for the service fee, you can refuse to invite him, but if the church has the ability and does not support us, it is their debt to the preacher and to God.
In fact, workers deserve their wages. "Do not keep the ox from taking the grain when he is crushing it." Not to say human. However, it is difficult for many preachers to get basic supplies. The church should not treat preachers as free labor or employees but should treat them as family members, cherish them and respect them.
Some would argue that I can use my parents' pension to pay the rent, but they also need to be taken care of. Once they get sick and are hospitalized, it's not a matter of a small amount of money. Would I raise money from the brothers and sisters? I don't want it. So I'd rather serve part-time.
Q: Any suggestions on the support of preachers?
I think we can learn from foreign experiences.
First of all, almost all the missionaries sent to China a long time ago were top talents in terms of personal knowledge, ability, character, and spiritual life. So there appeared missionaries like the Cambridge Seven.
Second, the church should strongly support the work of missionaries, not only through prayer but also through financial support, so that missionaries can concentrate on their ministry. Missionaries have set up hospitals and schools all across China, which have trained a large number of outstanding talents and pastors for China.
On the other hand, Chinese churches need to improve their awareness. Many churches think that preachers have to suffer, be selfless, and cannot get high pay, and believe that if preachers live comfortably, they would have no motivation and not rely on God. These ideas need to be changed. Otherwise, more people who want to serve the Lord will leave. Just as China is constantly increasing the income of teachers in order to attract more talents to engage in educational work.
Q: How do you handle the misunderstanding and harm from the church and believers?
I have met many brothers and sisters who love the Lord. They are not capable of giving, but they can give touching love. I have also met people who have the ability to give but are unwilling to. I used to serve in a church, the head of which was a rich businessman who built the church himself. At that time, my daughter was still in college. I would look up to the Lord for the tuition every semester. I served there for quite a period of time but got no supply at all. When I left, the nanny of his family cared about my traveling expenses and gave me RMB 100. I experienced too much, which made me learn a lesson. That is, I cannot put my hopes on others, as they often bring disappointment, discouragement, and even despair. Only by focusing on God can there be hope.
I'm building confidence recently. I haven’t been able to work for nearly half a year after my mother was hospitalized, and I have the big pressure of paying the rent. My daughter helped to pay the deposit and part of the rent, but I could not put this pressure on my daughter, so I prayed. Last month, my mother was able to take a wheelchair. Immediately, a brother introduced me to a tutor work, four times a month, which would provide just enough income to pay the rent.
- Translated by Oliver Zuo
Interview With Grassroots Female Pastor: Low Pay for Pastors Becomes Detrimental to Chinese Churches in the Long Haul
