Chinese people have the impression that churches are full of old people and women, and that men don’t often go to church. The phenomenon of more women than men in the church not only brings challenges to the development of the church’s ministry but also makes the possibility of marriage for relatively old sisters in the church difficult.
When Brother L was studying at a theological college in Taiwan, he had an online interview with the Gospel Times about what he saw and thought about the situation of more women than men in the church.
Gospel Times: It is common for churches to have fewer men and more women. Is this the case in the church you serve in Taiwan?
Brother L: This is also the case in Taiwan. This was also the case when I was a student in Indonesia, but it’s even more so in mainland China. In several local churches, there are more sisters, and they are relatively older. So, subjectively, the church has more female believers and fewer male believers.
Gospel Times: What do you think caused this?
Brother L: I think there are many factors contributing to this situation.
First of all, I would talk about the sovereignty of God. Because God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy on and blesses whom he wants to bless. I think maybe God predestined us to have more sisters in the churches. That’s one possibility.
Second, it may be common that the women could not “bring Jesus to life”. In other words, the husbands don’t see Jesus in their wives. They are one thing in the church and another when they are out of the church or at home. The dichotomy between the sacred and the secular is wrong. They’re holy only in the church - kind of like a wolf in sheep’s clothing. It’s just a religious life, not actually having faith. This leads to the unwillingness of men to understand or accept the faith.
Third, I think men may be more rational. Maybe like Thomas, they need to touch Jesus to believe. Maybe it’s also a hindrance to being a man.
Fourth, I think there may be a lot of pressure in my current life and work. Men, as the head, mainly bear the economic responsibility of the family, and that is a heavy burden. But I don’t think this is the main reason. It’s mostly about the relationship with God.
For example, in some families, men want to go to church, but their wives also want them to make money. Christians tend to be poor, so they work hard to make money and put Sunday aside. Some wives want their husbands to go to church, but their husbands will not go because they think that if they go to church on Sunday, their daily salary of 200 or 300 RMB will be lost.
Fifth, the degree of belief is not the same. Many people’s faith rests on the material side effects of faith, which we often refer to as “being satisfied after eating bread”. Many so-called believers only have hereditary beliefs.
Why do I say that? Because statistics show that the number of Christians on New Year’s Day and Christmas is higher. They probably just replaced the Bodhisattva in the temple with Jesus, resulting in the phenomenon of “only believing”.
Sixth, there may be a trick of Satan involved. Many people think it will be fine to believe later. Now is the time to make a lot of money. So they wait to believe later. That’s why they postpone.
In general, I think faith is about believing, and it’s about continuous, present-progressive faith. And this “faith” is a gift from God, so I would say that God’s time may not be here yet. Some people believe from childhood, some from middle age, some from old age, and some from dying. Therefore, as long as a man is not dead, he has the opportunity of repentance.
Maybe some men in their later years are more faithful. It is the sovereignty of God, and I can’t say that he does not believe or he will not be saved. I can only say that we need to keep sowing.
There are many good testimonies. The sister prayed for her husband for decades, and then one day he believed. So I think it is the stubbornness of men (or women), like the stubbornness of kings and pharaohs, unwilling to submit and humble themselves before God.
Gospel Times: Can you elaborate on the “sisters’ lives without testimonies” you mentioned?
Brother L: Why do you say “hallelujah” in church and treat your husband differently at home? Even when I preach, I joke about it. I will say, “Some sisters scold their husbands until they get bald.” Why would you give the worst to your husband? According to First Peter, good behavior should influence the husband.
Gospel Times: What was it like when you first came to faith?
Brother L: I went to church with my grandma when I was eight months old. I always was a Christian, but Jesus was my grandma’s God, not mine. But why did I start to believe? I think I have special grace or a special revelation. I hear special voices that most people don’t. In other words, I’m blessed with a calling.
I never wanted to be a pastor, but God had special amount of grace for me. When I was misbehaving, when I was with some bullies, I suddenly heard, “Tao, repent, be like Peter, not like Judas. Both men sinned, but Peter repented and Judas was hanged. You have to look at Psalm 70.”
Second, after I graduated from a Bible training program and served for a while, I went to junior college, and then I went to work in Shanghai. At that time, I was rebellious. But when I heard it said, “Seek first the kingdom of God and the righteousness of God and what your need will be given to you.” These words just gripped my heart.
Generally speaking, the end of people is the beginning of God. Some people will succumb to God because of illness, disappointment, or what it takes to be obedient. My father and my grandfather believed in Jesus because of my misbehaving.
Gospel Times: What is your observation of brothers’ participation in church service?
Brother L: The Bible says the brother is the head, but there are more female believers than male believers in the churches (I don’t know about some foreign churches. As far as I know, there are more female believers than male believers in all Chinese churches.)
Some denominations, such as the Southern Baptist Convention, do not approve of women preaching. I think this has a special background and is also a controversial issue. I want to say that, brothers, you should stand up and take responsibility. But some churches can’t help it because there are really few brothers; participation of male believers is not very high.
In other words, if a church has a high degree of participation of male believers in its ministry, that church is likely to be revitalized, or healthy.
Gospel Times: Because of the situation of more female believers in the churches, some churches have changed their mission strategy, and they start to focus on men. What do you think about that?
Brother L: As Paul said: “To the Jews I became as a Jew”, which is a well-targeted mission strategy. But I want to warn you not to misunderstand the gospel. The gospel is not just for men, but for all sinners.
For example: Regarding the sermon strategy of “happiness groups” to spread the Gospel, I would say, don’t turn the gospel into a theology of success. The gospel is just the gospel. Jesus was born for us, died for us, was buried for us, and was resurrected for us. He died for us sinners. This belief should not be changed at all because it would be against the men.
On this basis, I think it would be better to preach the gospel to brothers in a way they can understand. So the strategy of "happiness" is fine, but this is especially important - otherwise, it will be pleasing to people but displeasing to God.
If evangelism becomes a marketing tool, then I don’t think that’s very good. That’s the fundamental problem with the gospel, quantity without quality, and I think that’s a wake-up call. We should pursue quantity on the basis of quality.
Gospel Times: What is a happiness group?
Brother L: The happiness group is a group in which people talk about happiness, peace, God’s love, and so on. God loves us, but he is also perfectly righteous. Right now, this church’s pastors never talk about God’s justice or God’s judgment. We should be concerned about that.
Gospel Times: What is the role of a brother in the workplace? How does he live out his mission in the workplace?
Brother L: I think the question goes back to the church’s teaching concept. Many churches think that only serving in church is true service. But I would say that serving is doing what God wants you to do; it’s also what you do for Him.
After this is understood, there are all kinds of service. There is service at home, and there is service in social work. Our worship is not just about meeting in the church. It’s all about what we say, do, and think. So I think there is a balance between church service, family service, and professional service.
With this in mind, let us look again at what a brother should do in his professional life. People like good behavior. Everyone else works for the boss, but Christians work for God. We are different from others. We would rather be called fools.
Gospel Times: What are the common temptations and weaknesses of brothers?
Brother L: I want to use the words of the Bible: “the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, the pride in riches”. Specifically, in terms of sex, power, and money.
Gospel Times: How do we conquer them?
Brother L: The rules are very important. For example, the visiting should not be one-to-one. There must be two sisters and one brother, or two brothers and one sister, or more people. It is best for sisters to coach sisters. Brothers should care about brothers to avoid the transfer of feelings in the process of heterosexual counseling, to avoid temptation. If one-on-one tutoring is required, keep it open and public so as not to cause unnecessary trouble.
As a preacher or pastor, you should not touch money when you are serving. The church’s finances shall be handled by accountants.
These are principles that I learned in my seminary classes as well as what some predecessors of the faith taught me.
Gospel Times: As a single brother, what are your expectations for your future marriage?
Brother L: Actually, I started taking marriage classes when I was a teenager. For someone my age, I got high marks in marriage theory, but I still had a lot to learn in practice.
I remember in my testimony that “whoever marries me is a fool”.
Why would I say that? Because if I am now serving in the church in Taiwan. As long as I serve for eight days a month (weekend internship), I get more than 3,000 RMB. In the future, if I work full-time, I can earn 10,000 to 20, 000 RMB a month. Then my life will be free of worries. If I return to the mainland to serve, I can only get two or three thousand RMB for a month of full-time work. In economic terms, I certainly could not provide much for my future wife then.
In addition, churches here may perform their respective duties with administrative departments in charge of administration and pastoral departments in charge of pastoral care. In mainland China, the church administrative and pastoral care systems are relatively imperfect, so the pastoral workers have to do everything. Even the phone of a priest or pastor is busy 24 hours a day and he may spend less time with his wife.
A full-time pastor and a layman are two different things when choosing a wife. As a full-time pastor, I would definitely like to find a sister who serves full-time with me, so that we can work together.
In my opinion, the balance between family service and church service is very important. If you can’t manage the house, then you can’t manage the church.
As for how to choose a mate: I think you will make a choice from your location spiritually.
There are few brothers in the church, and the sisters are in their thirties and forties. Do they need to keep waiting, or should they marry someone who doesn’t believe? This is a controversial issue regarding how to apply in context the principle that “the faithful and unbelievers cannot be together”.
Gospel Times: Does your church have a fellowship?
Brother L: There is a fellowship of brothers. There are several types of fraternal fellowships. One is for adolescents who are dealing with issues such as masturbation, and the fellowship guides them in dealing with physical changes. One is a fellowship of marriage-ready brothers to help them become husbands after God’s will. There are also business fellowships, elder brothers fellowships, and so on.
Gospel Times: What is the growth and witness of the brothers in fellowship?
Brother L: As for teenagers, for example, these boys are often tempted by Satan. Some are self-indulgent and some are abstinent. They are going in two wrong directions. We teach them according to the Bible, for example, that sex is a gift in marriage, and let them wait patiently. Let them read the Scriptures. As Paul exhorted Timothy, “shun youthful passions”. Then everyone participates in sports together and plays basketball, which can help them learn to win. Many unbelievers are also willing to participate in such activities.
(The views expressed in this article are those of the interviewee and should not be understood to represent the views of China Christian Daily.)
- Translated by Charlie Li
人们对教会的印象是老人多、女人多，男人不会轻易踏进教会的门。教会中阴盛阳衰状况，不仅给教会的事工开展带来挑战，也使教会内大龄姐妹的婚姻成难题。
L弟兄在台湾某神学院就读时，接受了福音时报线上采访，谈及他对教会中阴盛阳衰状况的所见所思。
福音时报：教会中普遍是弟兄少姐妹多，你在台湾服侍的教会也是这样吗？
L弟兄：在台湾这边也是这样子，我在印尼的时候也是这样子（之前在印尼上学），国内内地教会更是如此，在好几个地方讲台上，从台上看下去，基本都是姐妹比较多，而且比较老龄化。所以，主观的感觉教会都是阴盛阳衰。
福音时报：你觉得是什么原因导致了这种情况？
L弟兄：我觉得导致这个情况有很多方面吧。
首先，我会从神的主权来说，因为神要怜悯谁就怜悯谁，要恩待谁就恩待谁。我觉得，可能神预定的就是姐妹比较多，这是一种可能性。
第二，可能普遍的是姐妹没有把耶稣活出来。换句话说，丈夫他从姐妹身上看不到耶稣的样子，在教会是一个样子，在教会外或者回到家里又是另外一个样子。就是圣俗二分法出现错误了，在教会里是圣的，有点披着羊皮的狼的那种感觉，是宗教的生活，而不是真的有信仰。所以导致弟兄不愿意了解或接受信仰。
第三，我认为可能弟兄比较理性吧，可能像多马一样，需要摸着耶稣才能相信。可能这也是作为男人的一种拦阻。
第四，我认为可能现在的生活工作压力比较大，男人作为头，主要承担家里的经济责任，所以重担压力大了一些，但小弟兄我认为这不是主要借口和理由。主要还是跟与主的关系有关。
比如在家庭中，有些是弟兄有心聚会，但姐妹还是希望他能够去赚钱。基督徒群体中，在经济方面穷困的信徒比较多，所以，他们拼命赚钱把主日也放一边。有些则是姐妹有心，但弟兄考虑到礼拜天来聚会的话，他一天的两三百人民币工资就要跑掉了，所以就不来。
第五，信仰的生命程度不一样。很多人的信仰停留在信福音的附属品上面，也就是我们经常说的吃饼得饱而已，另外许多所谓的信徒是遗传式信仰。
为什么我这么说呢？因为，有统计数据显示，大年初一和圣诞节的基督徒比例比较多。他们可能就是把庙里的菩萨换成了耶稣，所以导致的就是“信就好了”。
第六，还有可能就是魔鬼的诡计啦。很多人认为晚一点再来信，现在好好赚钱，所以就等以后再说，会推迟。
总的来说，我觉得信仰就是要信，而且是持续不断，现在进行式的信。而这个“信”是神所赐的，所以，我想说，神的时候可能还未到吧。有的人他是从小就信，有的人是中年信，有的人是晚年信，有的人是临死信，所以，一个人只要没有死，他都有悔改的机会。
可能一些弟兄他们晚年的时候比较信吧，这是上帝的主权，我不能说他暂时没信他就不得救，只能说撒种下去，有时候。
也有很多好的见证啊，姐妹为自己的丈夫祷告了几十年，然后有一天他就信了。所以我想，还是人的顽梗吧，像法老王一样的刚硬，就是不愿意顺服、谦卑在神的面前。
福音时报：你提到的“姐妹生命没有见证”，这一点可以具体说一说吗？
L弟兄：为什么在教会里赞美主哈利路亚，回到家对待丈夫却是另一个样子？甚至我在讲道的时候，开玩笑的时候也在讲，“有的姐妹把丈夫都骂秃顶了”。为什么会把最差的给丈夫？按照彼得前书那里说，应该有好行为去影响丈夫啊。
福音时报：你当初信仰的时候，是怎样的一种情形？
L弟兄：我是从小八个月大就跟奶奶去教会，我从小都是一个“基督教徒”，但是耶稣是我奶奶的神，不是我的神。但是为什么我能够信仰呢？我想我身上有特殊的恩典，或者说有特殊的启示。我有听到特殊的声音，这是一般人没有的，换句话说，我的蒙恩与呼召是一起的。
我从来没有想过当传道人，但是上帝有特殊的恩典临到了我。当我不乖的时候，和一些混混们在一起的时候，我突然听到说，“涛，你要悔改，你要像彼得一样，不要像犹大一样。虽然两个人都犯罪了，但是彼得悔改了，犹大却吊死了。你要去看看诗篇第70篇。”
第二点，我从圣经培训班毕业，服侍一段时间后就去读大专，再后来去上海工作了嘛。那时候我就很悖逆，不愿意再次摆上的时候，我听到说，“先求神的国神的义，你所需要的必会给你。”从我心里这样跳出来。
一般来说，人的尽头是神的起头，有的人会因为疾病、失意，或者怎么样才会顺服降伏在神面前。我爸爸和我爷爷就因为我的不乖而信耶稣了。
福音时报：据你观察，弟兄在教会服侍当中的参与度如何？
L弟兄：圣经说弟兄是头，但是教会却因为阴盛阳衰（不知道国外的一些教会怎么样，据我了解的华人教会基本上阴盛阳衰），所以参与服侍的，就是有点相反了，一般都是姐妹来带头了。
美南浸信会等一些宗派，不认可女人讲道。我想这个有特殊背景，也是一个争议的问题。我想说弟兄要起来，承担这份责任与使命。但是有些教会也没办法，弟兄实在寥寥无几，所以参与度不是很高。
换句话说，如果一个教会弟兄服侍参与度比较高，那个教会肯定很复兴，或者说会比较健康。
福音时报：因为看到这种阴盛阳衰的情况，有的教会就改变传教策略，着重向男士传福音。对此你怎么看待？
L弟兄：像保罗说的一样，向什么人做什么人，这是很好的有针对性的传教策略。但是我想提醒，不要把福音给改变了，福音就是福音，不是针对男士，而是针对全人类所有罪人的。
比如现在流行的“幸福小组”这种传福音布道策略，我想说不要把福音变成了成功神学那一套，福音，就是福音，耶稣为我们降生，为我们受死，为我们埋葬，为我们身体复活，为我们罪人死。这个信仰的根本不要因为针对弟兄而改变。
在这个基础上，那么用弟兄们所能吸收的话去传讲，我觉得比较好。所以这个策略是没问题的，但是需要警醒这一点，不然的话就是讨人喜欢，却不讨神喜悦。
传福音如果成为一个营销手段，我觉得不太好。为什么现在韩国教会每一年有几百几百的人不信主？这就是福音的根基的问题，有数量却没有质量，我觉得这是要警醒的。我们要在质量的基础上再追求数量，这是我个人的观点。
福音时报：幸福小组？
L弟兄：幸福小组，就是偏向于讲幸福啊，讲平安啊，神是慈爱等等。神是慈爱的，但是他也是完全公义的。现在教会的讲台，忽略了讲神的公义，神的审判，所以需要平衡。
福音时报：韩国每年有几百人不再信仰了？
L弟兄：我的辅导老师是韩国的神学博士，他是韩国人，听他跟我讲，还有我的一些朋友在韩国读书，我听他们讲的。
就是因为福音根基不稳，这些人是教徒，而不是真正的信徒。所以用别的东西吸引人来没用，要用福音吸引人来，这样来的人一生都不会偏离。
福音时报：在职场中，弟兄的角色是怎样的？怎样在职场中活出自己的使命？
L弟兄：我想这个问题还是要回到教会的教导观念。很多教会认为教会里服侍才是服侍，教会外就不是服侍了，但是我想说，只要是神要你所做，并且你为神所做的一切都是服侍。
在清楚了这一点以后，那么服侍就广了。在家里也是一种服侍，在社会工作中也是一种服侍。我们的敬拜不仅仅是在教会里聚会，我们的所言、所行、所想都是敬拜。所以我觉得教会的服侍、家庭的服侍和职场的服侍都要平衡。
在这样的观念中，我们再来探讨弟兄在职场中要怎样行。比如说要有好行为，比如说别人都是为了老板工作，基督徒为上帝工作，就是和别人不一样，宁愿被别人说成傻子。
福音时报：弟兄常见的试探和软弱有哪些？
L弟兄：我想用《圣经》的话说，“眼目的情欲，肉体的情欲和今生的骄傲”。详细来说的话，是在性方面、权利方面、金钱方面。
福音时报：怎样去得胜呢？
L弟兄：制度很重要，比如说探访不要一对一，一定要两个姐妹一个弟兄，或者是两个弟兄一个姐妹，或者是更多人。最好是姐妹辅导姐妹，弟兄关心弟兄，避免异性辅导过程中发生感情的转移，落入试探。如果要一对一辅导，也要敞开门，要公共，以免造成不必要的麻烦。
作为传道也好，牧师也好，你是服侍的就不要碰钱，教会的财务要由会计处理。
这些原则是我在神学院上课学到的，以及一些信仰的前辈教导劝勉我的。
福音时报：作为一个单身弟兄，你对自己未来的婚姻有怎样的期待？
L弟兄：其实我十几岁的时候就开始上婚姻课了。同年龄人里面，我的婚姻课理论可以说挺高分，但是实践方面我还是有很多需要学习的。
我记得在我的见证里面有讲到，“谁嫁给我谁就是一个傻子”。
为什么这样讲呢？因为我现在在台湾教会服侍，一个月只要服侍八天（周末实习），就有3000多元人民币了。那么以后全职的话，一个月可能就一两万元人民币了，那么我的生活就没有忧虑了。我回大陆服侍的话，全职一个月两三千，在经济方面肯定给不了将来的妻子很多。
另外，这边的教会可能更各尽其职，行政的就管行政，牧养的就管牧养，大陆的教会行政和牧养体系相对不完善，所以牧者同工什么都要干。甚至牧师、传道的电话24小时开机，可能陪伴妻子的时间也少。
一个全职传道人的和一个平信徒，在择偶方面是两回事。我作为全职传道人，肯定想找一个和我一起全职服侍的姐妹，这样两个人会比较有交集。
在我看来，家庭服侍和教会服侍的平衡很重要。如果小家都没管好，怎么能管好教会这个大家呢。
至于怎么择偶，我觉得你的灵命到达哪里，就会抉择哪里。
教会里弟兄很少，姐妹们三四十岁了，难道就一直傻傻地等吗？要嫁给不信的人吗？这是一个比较有争议的问题，关系到“信与不信不能同负一轭”如何处境化地应用。
福音时报：你服侍的教会有没有弟兄团契？
L弟兄：有弟兄团契。分好几种弟兄团契，一种是青少年的弟兄团契，他们会面临比如自慰这个问题，团契会引导他们怎么面对生理的转变。一种是预备结婚的弟兄团契，帮助他们成为合神心意的丈夫。还有工商团契、老年弟兄团契等等。
福音时报：参与弟兄团契的弟兄，都有哪些成长和见证？
L弟兄：比如说青少年方面，这些男孩子很多时候会被魔鬼控告，有的放纵自己，有的禁欲，走向两种极端。那么我们从《圣经》中教导，比如性是婚姻中的礼物，让他们耐心等候，让他们多读经，像保罗劝勉提摩太一样的，“逃避少年的私欲”。然后大家一起多多运动，打打篮球，帮助他们去胜过。很多不信的人也愿意来参加。
95后传道人谈教会中阴盛阳衰现象
Chinese people have the impression that churches are full of old people and women, and that men don’t often go to church. The phenomenon of more women than men in the church not only brings challenges to the development of the church’s ministry but also makes the possibility of marriage for relatively old sisters in the church difficult.
When Brother L was studying at a theological college in Taiwan, he had an online interview with the Gospel Times about what he saw and thought about the situation of more women than men in the church.
Gospel Times: It is common for churches to have fewer men and more women. Is this the case in the church you serve in Taiwan?
Brother L: This is also the case in Taiwan. This was also the case when I was a student in Indonesia, but it’s even more so in mainland China. In several local churches, there are more sisters, and they are relatively older. So, subjectively, the church has more female believers and fewer male believers.
Gospel Times: What do you think caused this?
Brother L: I think there are many factors contributing to this situation.
First of all, I would talk about the sovereignty of God. Because God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy on and blesses whom he wants to bless. I think maybe God predestined us to have more sisters in the churches. That’s one possibility.
Second, it may be common that the women could not “bring Jesus to life”. In other words, the husbands don’t see Jesus in their wives. They are one thing in the church and another when they are out of the church or at home. The dichotomy between the sacred and the secular is wrong. They’re holy only in the church - kind of like a wolf in sheep’s clothing. It’s just a religious life, not actually having faith. This leads to the unwillingness of men to understand or accept the faith.
Third, I think men may be more rational. Maybe like Thomas, they need to touch Jesus to believe. Maybe it’s also a hindrance to being a man.
Fourth, I think there may be a lot of pressure in my current life and work. Men, as the head, mainly bear the economic responsibility of the family, and that is a heavy burden. But I don’t think this is the main reason. It’s mostly about the relationship with God.
For example, in some families, men want to go to church, but their wives also want them to make money. Christians tend to be poor, so they work hard to make money and put Sunday aside. Some wives want their husbands to go to church, but their husbands will not go because they think that if they go to church on Sunday, their daily salary of 200 or 300 RMB will be lost.
Fifth, the degree of belief is not the same. Many people’s faith rests on the material side effects of faith, which we often refer to as “being satisfied after eating bread”. Many so-called believers only have hereditary beliefs.
Why do I say that? Because statistics show that the number of Christians on New Year’s Day and Christmas is higher. They probably just replaced the Bodhisattva in the temple with Jesus, resulting in the phenomenon of “only believing”.
Sixth, there may be a trick of Satan involved. Many people think it will be fine to believe later. Now is the time to make a lot of money. So they wait to believe later. That’s why they postpone.
In general, I think faith is about believing, and it’s about continuous, present-progressive faith. And this “faith” is a gift from God, so I would say that God’s time may not be here yet. Some people believe from childhood, some from middle age, some from old age, and some from dying. Therefore, as long as a man is not dead, he has the opportunity of repentance.
Maybe some men in their later years are more faithful. It is the sovereignty of God, and I can’t say that he does not believe or he will not be saved. I can only say that we need to keep sowing.
There are many good testimonies. The sister prayed for her husband for decades, and then one day he believed. So I think it is the stubbornness of men (or women), like the stubbornness of kings and pharaohs, unwilling to submit and humble themselves before God.
Gospel Times: Can you elaborate on the “sisters’ lives without testimonies” you mentioned?
Brother L: Why do you say “hallelujah” in church and treat your husband differently at home? Even when I preach, I joke about it. I will say, “Some sisters scold their husbands until they get bald.” Why would you give the worst to your husband? According to First Peter, good behavior should influence the husband.
Gospel Times: What was it like when you first came to faith?
Brother L: I went to church with my grandma when I was eight months old. I always was a Christian, but Jesus was my grandma’s God, not mine. But why did I start to believe? I think I have special grace or a special revelation. I hear special voices that most people don’t. In other words, I’m blessed with a calling.
I never wanted to be a pastor, but God had special amount of grace for me. When I was misbehaving, when I was with some bullies, I suddenly heard, “Tao, repent, be like Peter, not like Judas. Both men sinned, but Peter repented and Judas was hanged. You have to look at Psalm 70.”
Second, after I graduated from a Bible training program and served for a while, I went to junior college, and then I went to work in Shanghai. At that time, I was rebellious. But when I heard it said, “Seek first the kingdom of God and the righteousness of God and what your need will be given to you.” These words just gripped my heart.
Generally speaking, the end of people is the beginning of God. Some people will succumb to God because of illness, disappointment, or what it takes to be obedient. My father and my grandfather believed in Jesus because of my misbehaving.
Gospel Times: What is your observation of brothers’ participation in church service?
Brother L: The Bible says the brother is the head, but there are more female believers than male believers in the churches (I don’t know about some foreign churches. As far as I know, there are more female believers than male believers in all Chinese churches.)
Some denominations, such as the Southern Baptist Convention, do not approve of women preaching. I think this has a special background and is also a controversial issue. I want to say that, brothers, you should stand up and take responsibility. But some churches can’t help it because there are really few brothers; participation of male believers is not very high.
In other words, if a church has a high degree of participation of male believers in its ministry, that church is likely to be revitalized, or healthy.
Gospel Times: Because of the situation of more female believers in the churches, some churches have changed their mission strategy, and they start to focus on men. What do you think about that?
Brother L: As Paul said: “To the Jews I became as a Jew”, which is a well-targeted mission strategy. But I want to warn you not to misunderstand the gospel. The gospel is not just for men, but for all sinners.
For example: Regarding the sermon strategy of “happiness groups” to spread the Gospel, I would say, don’t turn the gospel into a theology of success. The gospel is just the gospel. Jesus was born for us, died for us, was buried for us, and was resurrected for us. He died for us sinners. This belief should not be changed at all because it would be against the men.
On this basis, I think it would be better to preach the gospel to brothers in a way they can understand. So the strategy of "happiness" is fine, but this is especially important - otherwise, it will be pleasing to people but displeasing to God.
If evangelism becomes a marketing tool, then I don’t think that’s very good. That’s the fundamental problem with the gospel, quantity without quality, and I think that’s a wake-up call. We should pursue quantity on the basis of quality.
Gospel Times: What is a happiness group?
Brother L: The happiness group is a group in which people talk about happiness, peace, God’s love, and so on. God loves us, but he is also perfectly righteous. Right now, this church’s pastors never talk about God’s justice or God’s judgment. We should be concerned about that.
Gospel Times: What is the role of a brother in the workplace? How does he live out his mission in the workplace?
Brother L: I think the question goes back to the church’s teaching concept. Many churches think that only serving in church is true service. But I would say that serving is doing what God wants you to do; it’s also what you do for Him.
After this is understood, there are all kinds of service. There is service at home, and there is service in social work. Our worship is not just about meeting in the church. It’s all about what we say, do, and think. So I think there is a balance between church service, family service, and professional service.
With this in mind, let us look again at what a brother should do in his professional life. People like good behavior. Everyone else works for the boss, but Christians work for God. We are different from others. We would rather be called fools.
Gospel Times: What are the common temptations and weaknesses of brothers?
Brother L: I want to use the words of the Bible: “the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, the pride in riches”. Specifically, in terms of sex, power, and money.
Gospel Times: How do we conquer them?
Brother L: The rules are very important. For example, the visiting should not be one-to-one. There must be two sisters and one brother, or two brothers and one sister, or more people. It is best for sisters to coach sisters. Brothers should care about brothers to avoid the transfer of feelings in the process of heterosexual counseling, to avoid temptation. If one-on-one tutoring is required, keep it open and public so as not to cause unnecessary trouble.
As a preacher or pastor, you should not touch money when you are serving. The church’s finances shall be handled by accountants.
These are principles that I learned in my seminary classes as well as what some predecessors of the faith taught me.
Gospel Times: As a single brother, what are your expectations for your future marriage?
Brother L: Actually, I started taking marriage classes when I was a teenager. For someone my age, I got high marks in marriage theory, but I still had a lot to learn in practice.
I remember in my testimony that “whoever marries me is a fool”.
Why would I say that? Because if I am now serving in the church in Taiwan. As long as I serve for eight days a month (weekend internship), I get more than 3,000 RMB. In the future, if I work full-time, I can earn 10,000 to 20, 000 RMB a month. Then my life will be free of worries. If I return to the mainland to serve, I can only get two or three thousand RMB for a month of full-time work. In economic terms, I certainly could not provide much for my future wife then.
In addition, churches here may perform their respective duties with administrative departments in charge of administration and pastoral departments in charge of pastoral care. In mainland China, the church administrative and pastoral care systems are relatively imperfect, so the pastoral workers have to do everything. Even the phone of a priest or pastor is busy 24 hours a day and he may spend less time with his wife.
A full-time pastor and a layman are two different things when choosing a wife. As a full-time pastor, I would definitely like to find a sister who serves full-time with me, so that we can work together.
In my opinion, the balance between family service and church service is very important. If you can’t manage the house, then you can’t manage the church.
As for how to choose a mate: I think you will make a choice from your location spiritually.
There are few brothers in the church, and the sisters are in their thirties and forties. Do they need to keep waiting, or should they marry someone who doesn’t believe? This is a controversial issue regarding how to apply in context the principle that “the faithful and unbelievers cannot be together”.
Gospel Times: Does your church have a fellowship?
Brother L: There is a fellowship of brothers. There are several types of fraternal fellowships. One is for adolescents who are dealing with issues such as masturbation, and the fellowship guides them in dealing with physical changes. One is a fellowship of marriage-ready brothers to help them become husbands after God’s will. There are also business fellowships, elder brothers fellowships, and so on.
Gospel Times: What is the growth and witness of the brothers in fellowship?
Brother L: As for teenagers, for example, these boys are often tempted by Satan. Some are self-indulgent and some are abstinent. They are going in two wrong directions. We teach them according to the Bible, for example, that sex is a gift in marriage, and let them wait patiently. Let them read the Scriptures. As Paul exhorted Timothy, “shun youthful passions”. Then everyone participates in sports together and plays basketball, which can help them learn to win. Many unbelievers are also willing to participate in such activities.
(The views expressed in this article are those of the interviewee and should not be understood to represent the views of China Christian Daily.)
- Translated by Charlie Li
Young Pastor Talks about the Phenomenon of More Women than Men in the Church
