Under China's urbanization process, massive rural population has flown into the city. The countryside is declining. Fewer and fewer young people go to the rural church. Only old pastors and old believers still remain in the rural church.
Brother Lee from a rural church in Henan Province is almost 60 years old. He thinks the urbanization of rural churches is inevitable.
In his opinion, rural pastors should both explore the town church and hold on to the rural church. Faced with urbanization, we should still accompany the old rural believers through the last period of their life.
A church was built in his town one year ago. It was the beginning of urbanization of the rural church in his hometown. The process is difficult. Rural pastors are faced with many challenges when they shepherd in the urban church.
A co-worker of Christian Times invited Brother Lee to talk about the current situation, exploration and challenges of rural churches in Henan Province.
Christian Times: What do you think of the current situation of rural churches? What's the current challenge? Is there any effective exploration?
Brother Li: I personally think the urbanization of rural churches is a long-term process. The fellow workers of our church have discussed this matter before. We think the process is necessary because it is the willingness of the holy spirit. The job of the holy spirit is to preach the gospel to the crowd. The city is full of people.
Christian Times: If the rural church moves to the city now, what about the old believers and left-behind children in the rural church?
Brother Li: It is a long process. We have discussed the matter before. The rural church can't fall behind while we develop the city church. Currently we are unable to move all the rural churches to the city.
Christian Times: How can we maintain the balance between rural churches and city churches?
Brother Li: We need to work in close cooperation with an appropriate division of labor. Different fellow workers should do different things. The leader of our rural church wants to develop a new church in the town. We will make efforts to maintain the rural church as well as explore the city church. The church in the town marks the beginning of rural church's movement to the city.
Christian Times: There is still generation gap between the rural church and the urban church. The urban church needs youngsters while the old church is supported by the elderly. Would it be difficult for old pastors like you to shepherd in the urban church?
Brother Li: The generation gap does really exist. However, the gap won't forbid us from going to the urban church. We need to narrow the gap. Fellow workers themselves need transformation. We need to improve our quality and methods of shepherding.
For example, it is difficult for pastors of my age to use the Internet, computer and mobile phone. However, we have to learn these for our job and our next generation. In addition, we should change our clothing, manners and customs. When I am in the city, I can't continue using rural dialects.
Christian Times: Speaking of rural churches, what should we do to better feed these believers?
Brother Li: Almost all believers in the rural church are old, but we can't leave them. We should serve them patiently because they have contributed their whole lifetime to the church. Now they are going to see God. We are going to accompany them through the last period of life.
Christian Times: If we shepherd the church of rural and urban areas at the same time, fellow workers will face great pressure. Why not make others take charge of the town church and you are only responsible for rural churches?
Brother Li: We already have some three self churches in the town. We have different ideas with them. They thought we were competing for their territory and sheep. It's not the case. Actually we set up church in the town to preach gospel to those non-Christians.
Christian Times: You explore new church in the town. On one hand, it will attract more people to believe in God and benefit three self churches. On the other hand, the town church will facilitate the movement of rural churches to the city. If we set up a new church in the city, will there be benefits for rural churches?
Brother Li: Yes, there will be. Information can flow to each other. Staff and materials can also flow. As a result, a church won't be charged by only one person. It is like a union.
Christian Times: The style of evangelism in the rural church is different from that in the urban church. However, the basic truth is the same. So how can we grasp the differences and the similarity?
Brother He: The way of teaching is different. However, the information is all about saving, repentance and other basic truth. In terms of baptism, sermons, the rural church and the urban church are the same. However, we evangelize in different forms of language and expressions.
Christian Times: Compared with the urban church, what's the characteristics of rural churches?
Brother Li: The believers of rural churches are farmers. Food is the first necessity of people. The pace of farmers' life is seasonal. During the slack season the church will take time to feed believers and there will be many gatherings in the church. During the busy season, people are buried in farm work. They only worship God in the church on Sunday.
Rural churches in Henan and Anhui Province have a common way of shepherding. Pastors transmit same information in different halls. This is called flexible church. The town church is fixed. We have fixed fellow workers and venue. The advantage is that the information won't be mixed.
The ministry method in the town church is different. There will be people from all walks of life. They may come to the church at different time. In that case, the town church can open a few continuous lessons every day. For example, there could be lessons respectfully in the morning, afternoon and evening. Whenever believers come to the church, pastors can serve them.
Christian Times: What's the challenge in shepherding and transformation of rural churches?
Brother Li: Faced with urban church, rural pastors need to make many changes. Yesterday I told my son and my son in law to buy me a suit. Faced with different people, we should wear different clothes.
I give different lectures to people of different ages. I always talk about dreams with young students in theology class. I gave old believers comfort and encouragement to spend the rest of their life.
We are faced with big challenges in shepherding pastors. The fellow workers of my church haven't received any wage since we started to serve God. However, the fellow workers in the church work full time. They don't have their own land so they need to be paid.
Christian Times: Can the wage system be used in the rural church including the dozen of churches you are feeding now.
Brother Li: The key problem is that the rural church lacks money! The daily expense of the church is high. We have to spend money on evangelism, gatherings, charitable donations and festivals celebration. The main source of church funds are from testimony donation, tithing and so on. We even have to pay for motorcycle fuel by ourselves. Thanks to God. We haven't lacked anything.
Christian Times: Now the economic situation in rural areas is not so optimistic. Believers are almost all the elderly. Would it be difficult for rural churches to transform? Will rural churches decline eventually ? What about the future development of rural churches?
Brother Li: We should watch the need of the holy spirit and the development of rural church.
In recent years, the urbanization of rural churches can't be finished completely due to limited conditions. So we need to focus on developing urban church and spare efforts to serve the rural church at the same time.
Some believers in the church are more than 80 years old. If we only set churches in the city, the old man can't afford the bumps on the road.Therefore we should achieve a balance between the development of the urban church and the rural church.
- Translated by Emma Ma
面对着中国城市化的进程，农村人口大量涌入城市，农村逐渐凋敝的同时，农村教会的年轻人也越来越少，只剩下上了年纪的老年传道人，牧养着上了年纪的信徒们。耶稣要去耶路撒冷，保罗要去罗马，如今的传道人要转向城市。“必须到人群中传福音，到人群密集的地方，就是城市/城镇里面。没有人，你传福音给谁呢？”河南一农村教会年近60岁的同工李弟兄这样说到。
李弟兄认为，农村教会转向城市/城镇是必然的，农村传道人面对城市化，要重点开拓城镇教会，但是也要持守农村教会，陪伴这些老年信徒走完最后一段路。他所在的教会片区也在1年多前在当地镇上建立了一个教会，作为农村教会转向城市的开端。然而这个过程也是艰难的，农村传道人在对城市教会的牧养工作中受到诸多挑战。
基督时报同工邀请李弟兄针对目前河南农村教会的现状、探索与挑战进行了分享。李弟兄从个人角度讲述了他的观点，也分享了此前他们教会同工探讨所得到的一些结论。
以下李河弟兄与基督时报谈话的整理内容。
基督时报：从您个人角度，您是怎么看待目前农村教会的现状的呢？目前的挑战是什么？在哪些方面的新的探索是非常有效的呢？
李弟兄：我个人认为，农村教会转向城市教会的过程不是短期的，而是长期的。我们教会的同工曾经讨论过这个事情，认为农村教会转向城市教会是必须要走的路，早一天晚一天都要走，即便是有任何人心里不乐意，这个事也必须做。这不是人心所想的，是圣灵在工作。圣灵的工作是必须到人群中传福音，到人群密集的地方，就是城市里面。没有人，你传福音给谁呢？所以教会由农村转向城市，是必须要走的道路，早一天晚一天，一定要转型。
基督时报：如果现在农村教会转向城市的话，你们所牧养的农村教会里有很多的老年信徒和留守儿童啊，该怎么办呢？
李弟兄：这是一个过程，我们商讨的结果是，农村教会不能落下，城市教会还要开拓。因为现在还不到将农村教会全部搬到城市的程度。
基督时报：农村教会的维持与城市教会的开拓者这两方面怎么平衡呢？
李弟兄：要分工，有做不同的事的同工。我们教会的带领者之前除了管理我们这个片上农村的教会，同时还想在镇上开拓一个新的教会做植堂，这样的形势逼着我们要承担双重责任。农村教会也做着，城市教会也要开拓，而在镇上的这间教会希望成为教会由农村转向城市的一个起点、一个榜样。
基督时报：农村与城市还存在代沟的问题，城市教会需要年轻人，而农村教会需要老年人牧养。像您这样年纪大的传道人牧养城市教会的话会不会出现困难？
李弟兄：的确存在代沟，我们60岁的人去城市的青年团契，的确存在年龄的差异。但是现在我们并不因此就不去牧养城市教会，我们要缩小这方面的差距。同工本身也要转型，我们的素质要提高，牧养等方面的方法要改变。比如说，现在的互联网、电脑、手机，我60岁的年纪操作这些很吃力，但是吃力也要去学这些，为了工作，为了下一辈的信徒，必须要做。此外，衣着穿戴、言谈举止、生活习俗等，都要有改变。比如说惯了农村方言，面对城市就不能再这样。
基督时报：回来再说农村教会，您认为要怎么更好地喂养这些信徒呢？
李弟兄：农村教会现在面临的问题是信徒几乎全是老年信徒，但是不能抛下他们，并且要耐心地服侍，因为他们也是天家的功臣，信主信了大半辈子，他们现在快要见主了，在最后我们要陪他们走完最后一段路。
基督时报：若是要同时牧养农村和城市的教会，会造成同工面临大的压力。那为什么不把镇教会的工作交给镇教会自己做，你们只负责农村教会呢？
李弟兄：在我们开拓城镇教会之前，已经有的城镇教会不是家庭教会在做，是三自教会，这双方的观念不一样。他们给我们压力，因为他们以为我们在争夺他们的地盘和羊。但其实不是，我们是为了给未信的人传福音而在镇上做教会。
基督时报：你们到镇上开拓新的教会，其实对三自教会也会带来一些好处，因为有更多的人信主。另一方面也有利于你们更好的从农村教会转向城市教会。在城市植堂的话，对农村教会有什么帮助吗？
李弟兄：有。城市、农村双方教会在信息方面是一样的，因此信息是可以互相流动的，人员、物资等方面也可以互相流动。这样，一间教会就不会只是被某个人管辖，也不是属于某个人，是流动的，像联盟一样。
基督时报：关于讲道，给农村教会讲道跟给城市教会讲道很多风格是不一样的，同时基本的真理也是一样的，那如何把握呢？
河弟兄：讲道方式的确不一样，信息一样的是得救、悔改等基要真理，以及洗礼、布道、奋兴等方面是要一致的。但是语言表达、形式等方面不一样。
基督时报：不一样具体体现在什么地方？农村教会更突出的特点是什么？城市呢？
李弟兄：农村教会的信徒是农民，农民是民以食为天，生活节奏是季节性的，农闲的时候教会就要抓紧牧养，这个时候教会的聚会就很多。农忙的时候，除了主日礼拜等主要聚会，其他时候大家都要忙自己地里的活。
河南、安徽的农村教会常见的一种牧养方式就是片养制（传道人在负责片区内每周在不同堂点宣讲同样的信息），是流动植堂，通过传道人在不同堂点带领查经，在这个片区之内信息是一样的。城镇植堂是固定植堂，一个堂点会有固定的同工，这样的好处是信息不混杂。
城镇教会服事的方法不一样，他们不种地，有经商的、有在职场的，不同的人在一天中可以来到教会的时间不一样。这样的话，城镇教会的牧养方式可以采取一天内连续开几堂课的方式，比如上午、下午、晚上分别开两堂课，这样信徒无论什么时候来到教会，传道人都可以为他们服侍。
基督时报：现在农村教会的牧养和转型当中面临的挑战是什么？
李弟兄：就我个人来说，是面对城市教会信徒我个人需要做很多改变。我昨天跟我的儿子和女婿说，你们给老爸点钱，我买件西装。因为我不能在任何地方都随便穿衣裳。面临不同的人群，在穿衣上也要有讲究。
我给神学班的年轻学生讲课和给老人讲课也不一样。给年轻人，要跟他们讲梦想，面对老人们，是要给他们鼓励和安慰，好好走剩下的路——信息不一样。信息、谈吐、穿着，都会不一样，因为人群不一样。
我们在供养传道人方面面临的挑战也很大。我们这些同工从一开始服事主到现在一直没有工资，都是义工性质的。现在去城镇植堂，他们已经走出来了，也做起来了，在城镇教会服侍的同工是全身心投入的，是全职的，比如漯河、周口的教会（不像农村还有自己的地），所以他们现在需要有工资制。
基督时报：现在工资制可以引用到农村教会吗？比如您现在牧养的这十几个教会。
李弟兄：现在引入农村教会还不行。按照教会发展的方向和章程来说，供养传道人是可以的。关键问题是农村教会缺乏这方面的资金——老太太们哪有钱啊！教会本身有很多必须的开销，比如聚会宣教、慈善捐助、费用、十一费用等等。教会资金的来源主要是见证捐、十一奉献等。农村工资制还是有难度。就是我们自己的花费、摩托车的油费都是要自己出的。要说难，主也没有让我们缺乏，感谢主。
基督时报：现在农村经济难，信徒又几乎全是老年人，那结论是不是就是农村教会很难转型？最终农村教会是否还是会慢慢衰落？农村教会发展以后会如何？您怎么看？
李弟兄：最后的这个阶段、最后的结局如何，一是看圣灵的需要，另一方面还要再看农村教会以后的发展。最近几年农村完全转向城市化是不可能的，现在条件不允许，完全改变不允许，所以需要两下兼顾，重点开拓城市教会，下面的农村教会依然要服侍，要陪伴最后的一段路。教会里的信徒年龄大的有80多岁，如果只有城市教会，这个城市教会离这老人再近，也要有几里路。除了路程的原因，还因为农村的路上颠簸，老人承受不了，所以没有农村教会，对于这些老人来说是艰难的。
因此这段时间要城市、农村两方兼顾地走。
（本文为基督时报独家稿件，由笔者根据采访内容整理而成。文中观点仅代表受访者立场，基督时报保持中立。欢迎个人浏览转载，其他公众平台未经授权，不得转载！）
【访谈】河南基层传道人谈农村教会现状与转型探索：农村与城镇都要兼顾
Under China's urbanization process, massive rural population has flown into the city. The countryside is declining. Fewer and fewer young people go to the rural church. Only old pastors and old believers still remain in the rural church.
Brother Lee from a rural church in Henan Province is almost 60 years old. He thinks the urbanization of rural churches is inevitable.
In his opinion, rural pastors should both explore the town church and hold on to the rural church. Faced with urbanization, we should still accompany the old rural believers through the last period of their life.
A church was built in his town one year ago. It was the beginning of urbanization of the rural church in his hometown. The process is difficult. Rural pastors are faced with many challenges when they shepherd in the urban church.
A co-worker of Christian Times invited Brother Lee to talk about the current situation, exploration and challenges of rural churches in Henan Province.
Christian Times: What do you think of the current situation of rural churches? What's the current challenge? Is there any effective exploration?
Brother Li: I personally think the urbanization of rural churches is a long-term process. The fellow workers of our church have discussed this matter before. We think the process is necessary because it is the willingness of the holy spirit. The job of the holy spirit is to preach the gospel to the crowd. The city is full of people.
Christian Times: If the rural church moves to the city now, what about the old believers and left-behind children in the rural church?
Brother Li: It is a long process. We have discussed the matter before. The rural church can't fall behind while we develop the city church. Currently we are unable to move all the rural churches to the city.
Christian Times: How can we maintain the balance between rural churches and city churches?
Brother Li: We need to work in close cooperation with an appropriate division of labor. Different fellow workers should do different things. The leader of our rural church wants to develop a new church in the town. We will make efforts to maintain the rural church as well as explore the city church. The church in the town marks the beginning of rural church's movement to the city.
Christian Times: There is still generation gap between the rural church and the urban church. The urban church needs youngsters while the old church is supported by the elderly. Would it be difficult for old pastors like you to shepherd in the urban church?
Brother Li: The generation gap does really exist. However, the gap won't forbid us from going to the urban church. We need to narrow the gap. Fellow workers themselves need transformation. We need to improve our quality and methods of shepherding.
For example, it is difficult for pastors of my age to use the Internet, computer and mobile phone. However, we have to learn these for our job and our next generation. In addition, we should change our clothing, manners and customs. When I am in the city, I can't continue using rural dialects.
Christian Times: Speaking of rural churches, what should we do to better feed these believers?
Brother Li: Almost all believers in the rural church are old, but we can't leave them. We should serve them patiently because they have contributed their whole lifetime to the church. Now they are going to see God. We are going to accompany them through the last period of life.
Christian Times: If we shepherd the church of rural and urban areas at the same time, fellow workers will face great pressure. Why not make others take charge of the town church and you are only responsible for rural churches?
Brother Li: We already have some three self churches in the town. We have different ideas with them. They thought we were competing for their territory and sheep. It's not the case. Actually we set up church in the town to preach gospel to those non-Christians.
Christian Times: You explore new church in the town. On one hand, it will attract more people to believe in God and benefit three self churches. On the other hand, the town church will facilitate the movement of rural churches to the city. If we set up a new church in the city, will there be benefits for rural churches?
Brother Li: Yes, there will be. Information can flow to each other. Staff and materials can also flow. As a result, a church won't be charged by only one person. It is like a union.
Christian Times: The style of evangelism in the rural church is different from that in the urban church. However, the basic truth is the same. So how can we grasp the differences and the similarity?
Brother He: The way of teaching is different. However, the information is all about saving, repentance and other basic truth. In terms of baptism, sermons, the rural church and the urban church are the same. However, we evangelize in different forms of language and expressions.
Christian Times: Compared with the urban church, what's the characteristics of rural churches?
Brother Li: The believers of rural churches are farmers. Food is the first necessity of people. The pace of farmers' life is seasonal. During the slack season the church will take time to feed believers and there will be many gatherings in the church. During the busy season, people are buried in farm work. They only worship God in the church on Sunday.
Rural churches in Henan and Anhui Province have a common way of shepherding. Pastors transmit same information in different halls. This is called flexible church. The town church is fixed. We have fixed fellow workers and venue. The advantage is that the information won't be mixed.
The ministry method in the town church is different. There will be people from all walks of life. They may come to the church at different time. In that case, the town church can open a few continuous lessons every day. For example, there could be lessons respectfully in the morning, afternoon and evening. Whenever believers come to the church, pastors can serve them.
Christian Times: What's the challenge in shepherding and transformation of rural churches?
Brother Li: Faced with urban church, rural pastors need to make many changes. Yesterday I told my son and my son in law to buy me a suit. Faced with different people, we should wear different clothes.
I give different lectures to people of different ages. I always talk about dreams with young students in theology class. I gave old believers comfort and encouragement to spend the rest of their life.
We are faced with big challenges in shepherding pastors. The fellow workers of my church haven't received any wage since we started to serve God. However, the fellow workers in the church work full time. They don't have their own land so they need to be paid.
Christian Times: Can the wage system be used in the rural church including the dozen of churches you are feeding now.
Brother Li: The key problem is that the rural church lacks money! The daily expense of the church is high. We have to spend money on evangelism, gatherings, charitable donations and festivals celebration. The main source of church funds are from testimony donation, tithing and so on. We even have to pay for motorcycle fuel by ourselves. Thanks to God. We haven't lacked anything.
Christian Times: Now the economic situation in rural areas is not so optimistic. Believers are almost all the elderly. Would it be difficult for rural churches to transform? Will rural churches decline eventually ? What about the future development of rural churches?
Brother Li: We should watch the need of the holy spirit and the development of rural church.
In recent years, the urbanization of rural churches can't be finished completely due to limited conditions. So we need to focus on developing urban church and spare efforts to serve the rural church at the same time.
Some believers in the church are more than 80 years old. If we only set churches in the city, the old man can't afford the bumps on the road.Therefore we should achieve a balance between the development of the urban church and the rural church.
- Translated by Emma Ma
[Interview] Grassroots Pastor from Henan Province Talk about Present Situation and Transformation of Rural Churches
